With all the discourse around H1Bs recently, I ask what the alternative is? Offshoring and workers paying taxes in their own countries? The common argument of X number of CS grads unemployed fails to hold as CS has been a monkey degree over the past few years due to the rush for money. Some investigation will show many graduates are not able to perform software engineering duties up to par, and sub par graduates compared to pre 2015. Of course its nuanced between training that companies used to offer etc.
The solution is simple, but unpalatable to us. With AI, SWE-1 becomes a minimum wage job, with SWE2 (1.5X), SWE3 (2X) and SWE4 (3x). With such a rationalization we will retain more of the work here, or this will move. Government policies cannot control this as it will mean losing tech hegemony.
Is it worth taking a hit on higher compensation for longer term peace of mind?
No the solution is hiring American workers and implementing strict on soil laws for pii just like other countries are doing (India for example).
I have learned a great deal and been enriched by my friendships with foreign born workers, but to act like h1b workers come “ready to perform software engineering duties” at any higher rate than new grad higher is funny.
This, I don't understand how we have tons of un- and underemployed American workers and yet somehow businesses have convinced the government that they need to import workers.
The answer isn't one a lot of people are willing to talk about, but personally, I don't care.
The problem isn't "businesses", it's other Indians. They take entire tech orgs over, then only hire each other. They make up bizarre reasons why US workers won't fit while spamming H1B applications.
Before you grab your pitchforks, or try to dox me for racism one, please understand it's not all Indian people, obviously. There are so many in the US, and the majority are good people. But there's an extremely clear pattern that's emerged that you'd have to be blind not to see.
The pattern I’ve seen emerge is that the only successful candidates just happen to be of the same ethnolinguistic background as the hiring manager. Merely being Indian is not enough.
Australian universities make billions and lobby the government to import students from developing countries, the agents of these universities tell the students that getting jobs and a permanent resident visa is easy, just pay the huge fees and you will get the chance to live your dreams in a developed country.
True. But the common man on the street wants things to be cheap. This is not sustainable unless on imports cheap h1b (or other overworked foreigners).
Edit: This is not meant to support h1b.
Ideal case - people that are not on H1B and work in these companies - contact your CEO/managers. People don't do that. Instead are happy to argue (or downvote) here.
No doubt h1b is abused. Corporations use it to structurally underpay tech labor. Shame to anyone defending this abuse as some sort of pro immigration policy - it hurts both domestic workers and underpays migrant labor. The question is - what % of this labor could be sourced domestically and what actually needs to be imported?
$196k average at Capital One? Even with HCOL, that's a very good salary. I feel like they could certainly find competent citizens willing to work for that wage...
Exposed what ? It has brought some great talent to the country and helped with talent immigration for sure, everyone knows it. There is a phase when there is a sacrifice for the candidate but then people change jobs even when green card processing is throught the stages.
With all the discourse around H1Bs recently, I ask what the alternative is? Offshoring and workers paying taxes in their own countries? The common argument of X number of CS grads unemployed fails to hold as CS has been a monkey degree over the past few years due to the rush for money. Some investigation will show many graduates are not able to perform software engineering duties up to par, and sub par graduates compared to pre 2015. Of course its nuanced between training that companies used to offer etc.
The solution is simple, but unpalatable to us. With AI, SWE-1 becomes a minimum wage job, with SWE2 (1.5X), SWE3 (2X) and SWE4 (3x). With such a rationalization we will retain more of the work here, or this will move. Government policies cannot control this as it will mean losing tech hegemony.
Is it worth taking a hit on higher compensation for longer term peace of mind?
No the solution is hiring American workers and implementing strict on soil laws for pii just like other countries are doing (India for example).
I have learned a great deal and been enriched by my friendships with foreign born workers, but to act like h1b workers come “ready to perform software engineering duties” at any higher rate than new grad higher is funny.
>No the solution is hiring American workers
This, I don't understand how we have tons of un- and underemployed American workers and yet somehow businesses have convinced the government that they need to import workers.
The answer isn't one a lot of people are willing to talk about, but personally, I don't care.
The problem isn't "businesses", it's other Indians. They take entire tech orgs over, then only hire each other. They make up bizarre reasons why US workers won't fit while spamming H1B applications.
Before you grab your pitchforks, or try to dox me for racism one, please understand it's not all Indian people, obviously. There are so many in the US, and the majority are good people. But there's an extremely clear pattern that's emerged that you'd have to be blind not to see.
The pattern I’ve seen emerge is that the only successful candidates just happen to be of the same ethnolinguistic background as the hiring manager. Merely being Indian is not enough.
Its the same in Australia.
Australian universities make billions and lobby the government to import students from developing countries, the agents of these universities tell the students that getting jobs and a permanent resident visa is easy, just pay the huge fees and you will get the chance to live your dreams in a developed country.
True. But the common man on the street wants things to be cheap. This is not sustainable unless on imports cheap h1b (or other overworked foreigners).
Edit: This is not meant to support h1b.
Ideal case - people that are not on H1B and work in these companies - contact your CEO/managers. People don't do that. Instead are happy to argue (or downvote) here.
No doubt h1b is abused. Corporations use it to structurally underpay tech labor. Shame to anyone defending this abuse as some sort of pro immigration policy - it hurts both domestic workers and underpays migrant labor. The question is - what % of this labor could be sourced domestically and what actually needs to be imported?
You should try to communicate to managers (that are US citizens or greencard holders) that decide on H1B/outsourcing.
$196k average at Capital One? Even with HCOL, that's a very good salary. I feel like they could certainly find competent citizens willing to work for that wage...
See also "I Was a Director at Amex When They Started Replacing Us with $30K Workers [video]", posted twice:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47028155
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038665
Exposed what ? It has brought some great talent to the country and helped with talent immigration for sure, everyone knows it. There is a phase when there is a sacrifice for the candidate but then people change jobs even when green card processing is throught the stages.
> then people change jobs even when green card processing is throught the stages.
Finding employers who will sponsor is not easy so the employees are essentially locked to the sponsoring company, dont complain too much.
Racism shortage is a myth.
Is the h1b a good system? No.
Do the people who suddenly started bringing it up once Trump got elected give a single f about policy? Also no.
Don’t waste your time discussing policy with them. They don’t care.
Because at the core, they only care about the color of the skin of the tech workers.