> People like to freak out about this, so I wanted to post it here to make sure that everyone who wants to freak out about it gets the opportunity to do so.
I've grown to appreciate unapologetic trolling of people who care way too much about what other people do to themselves or their own private property.
One of my favorite pastimes. There's a facebook group I'm in that has a member that ran over some old plastic part of his car that people pay good money for and the amount of chaos it caused in the group was indescribable. I watch the video anytime I need a good laugh
25 years ago one of early engineering courses included a case study about Ingersol Rand (IIRC). They went out to work floors and saw how all the workers had modified their air wrenches in the same way, adding padding with tape in various areas. They realized they could probably make a better wrench if it had some of those ergonomics built in.
Maybe the next phase of Apple could return to flowing shapes and save our wrists.
If your wrist is in contact with the edge of the laptop while you are actively typing, then your typing style has a good chance of giving you RSI. You'd be better off trying to fix that than trying to make the fast path to RSI more convenient.
How the f are you supposed to type? Ideally I'd like full support for my arms from the elbow to the wrist.
In my first job - i think it was in 1997, I had my own small room with an L-shaped desk with a rounded corner. That gave a few inches of space for resting my arms - both when typing on a quite reasonable Pentium laptop, and especially when using the mouse.
Since then, the desks and the chairs has become shittier and shittier. Except perhaps when a was a consultant for an HR-department.
The U-shaped desk was probably the best ergonomically designed workplace I've had. Maybe a wheat-filled pad along the desk would have made it better.
If your arms are resting, then your fingers and wrists are doing the maximum amount of reaching as you type. If you use a wrist rest you are encouraging your fingers/wrist to reach up (bend in your wrist) instead of neutral or reaching down (more natural position).
A more concrete way of putting it is if you are putting so much weight on your wrists that the edge of the MacBook is making you uncomfortable, you're probably doing it wrong.
I've heard this but I've personally been typing this way for 25+ years (wrists on the rest, including on laptops exclusively for the last 15), my wrists are fine. Meanwhile people I know with ergonomic keyboards and everything that's supposed to save your wrists are the ones with bad wrists.
My experience with Apple hardware has been it generally holds up. I've only on my third iPad since I bought the original in 2011. My iPhones have all lasted at least four years.
The screen on my Macbook Air has been the exception. I wonder why they can't just use the same display on those that they do iPad. Seems better quality, as well
I’ve made my living as a pro photographer for over 30 years. These days I consider most cameras to be disposable. I also keep any older bodies as hazardous duty remote cameras. Once you get into the mindset it opens a certain amount of creativity.
The number of times I find myself saying to beginning photographers that babying their camera is the surest way to hate photography, whether as a hobby or a profession… I get particularly testy about handwringing about weather sealing or protecting the finish on their kit. Just take the camera places and use it. It’s probably going to be fine. It’s going to get scars. That’s just stories.
That doesn’t seem strange to me, Apple is my “buy it for what’s on the box” brand, stuff that I don’t want to mod. If I want to mess with something I usually use hardware that runs Linux.
This is why I like cheaper tools. Yes, that means cheaper quality but it's far easier to approach taking a dremel to it. And the DIY look usually matches the stock materials better anyway.
I'd say it's an even split. Half the Jeeps on the road and on the trails are modified. On the road maybe 1/10 of Porches are modified, but on the track 90% are.
Big difference between bolt-ons vs deeper mods too.
I used a macbook for almost 2 years and genuinely don't understand how people can tolerate these machines. My wrists would be cut up all the time to the point where I looked like I was self harming myself and the glary screen is entirely unsuable anywhere but a darkest basement. Not to mention the terrible keyboard. To this day I'm perplexed how macbooks have such high desirability by full time developers when they're almost unusable.
I hear people complain about laptop ergonomics all of the time and I don't understand it. I have zero issues with either of my Macbooks. I can go for hours and not be fatigued.
If I have it in my lap, the outer ball of each wrist is resting on the body to the left and right of the trackpad and that means my forearms are angled upwards, away from the edges. They never rest on the edge of the laptop until I use the trackpad, and then the puffy outer pad of my palm is resting on the laptop edge. Still very comfortable.
If I'm using it at a desk it's the same story. My seat is high enough (relative to the desk) that my forearms lift up and away from the laptop. Never resting on the edge.
Are people seated so low so that the desk height is at breast level and they're making T-Rex arms to reach the keyboard? It seems so intuitively obvious to avoid such positions.
You may have smaller hands (no offense meant); imagining my hands in the position you explained, my fingers would be well outside of where they need to be. I have the same issue as OP, the corners dig into my heel/wrist area. I do have big banana hands though.
That sounds like you have your desk too low. You're going to get some major repetitive strain injuries in 10-20 years.
If you have your arms at your sides, elbows should bend 90 degrees. Then just move your arms slightly forward and you'll end up somewhere around 95 degrees. Now you can rest your forearms on the desk. This won't save you from all kinds of RSI, but it might help your wrists, elbows and shoulder joints last a bit longer.
Having the desk low, the chair high, or putting a laptop on your lap is okay. Having the desk or table "high" (i.e. at normal height for writing with a pen or eating a meal) is generally worse but not an insurmountable problem.
In either case, the most important thing is to keep your wrists in as straight and neutral position as possible, with your palms and wrists "floating" rather than resting on anything while actively typing. Having the wrists either flexed downward or extended upward is a really bad idea. Having the wrists turned out to the side isn't great either, but not as bad.
The keyboard should be positioned close enough to your body so that your shoulders can be relaxed with your upper arms hanging loosely. The laptop surface should be roughly parallel to your forearms, so if you have a high desk or table relative to your torso you will need to prop up the far side to tilt it up a bit.
You don’t even need 20 years, I spent the better part of a year in my mid 20s in pain because I was typing with my wrists at an upward angle like GP is describing.
Ergonomics is one of those things where you don't understand it until it effects you. Everyone can tolerate discomfort at some level and at different levels but obviously there best practices that manufacturers can partake in to make hardware more ergonomic.
For example, the monitor should be at eye level vertically but with laptop that's very hard to accomplish unless you position yourself in a reclined fashion to bring down your eye level closer to your lap - on a macbook you get wrist cuts like this.
One of the most important thing that makes a good ergonomic laptop is the ways it accomodates as many positions and setup as posible so your can rotate your working position to avoid excessive strain on one particular area. So when your back is tired you slouch down, when your wrists are tired you straighten up, when your eyes are tired you adjust the display brightness/theme etc.
When taken seriously it's totally possible to work safely even in poor conditions like outside or on a train but devices that completely ignore ergonomics just don't even give you the chance.
This is slightly misleading advice. The ideal place for the display has the top of the display at roughly eye level, or for a very large display maybe slightly above, which puts most of the display below eye level. Humans actually have great ability to look slightly downward for long periods of time while doing stuff with their hands, even while keeping their head held up straight, and indeed our eyes can more comfortably focus on close objects in the lower part of our field of view than straight ahead. What you don't want to do is slouch or bend your neck too much.
A laptop display attached to the keyboard usually isn't an ideal placement, but it's generally not too bad.
Welcome to "tech neck" - upper crossed syndrome, from looking slightly down.
You're inviting some surprising symptoms, not just neck and back pain, but things like numbness, tingling, or pain shooting down your arms. Really not fun.
Key posture correction seems to be pulling head back. Some physical therapy exercises can help as well.
In trying to picture this, I suppose there are certainly some stock photo models who'd feel the sharp edges:
google.com/images?q=person+using+laptop
I totally know what you mean about shifting positions. All the positions I've been in where I've felt the edges have been quite unergonomic, but perhaps not for everyone.
There's no way you can cut your wrists on the edge of a MacBook. To do that, you would have to be leaning straight-armed with all of your weight on the edge of the keyboard, which is a typing style that I've never seen. Mac keyboards are some of the best that I've ever used. There's nothing special about the Mac screen one way or the other.
You sound very confident. My M1 mbp’s edges are uncomfortable enough against my wrist/heel (?) area that I use an external keyboard even when on the couch.
Could it slice me open? Probably not without effort. Is it sharp, and sharp enough to cause discomfort? Definitely.
People come in all sorts of different shapes, sizes, and configurations. I don't have any pressure on the sharp edges in my normal day-to-day, and I'm having a little trouble figuring out how I'd contort myself to change that, so that particular issue is fine.
The glare is annoying. I would like to work outside more often.
Mind you, I don't really like the poor isolation and floating ground causing a tingling sensation when you touch it while charging, the lid hinge doesn't quite have enough internal resistance, the keys get stuck way too easily, etc. The sharp-corners build defect is fine for me though.
Yes, the electrical shocks are very annoying! I don't know if it's related to an older/failing battery but I've certainly noticed this on an old Macbook Pro. Thanks for mentioning this - I guess at 24VDC it isn't a regulatory issue but it really does feel like a small insect sting or something and it's irritating.
My newer Air doesn't seem to have this problem. Also the screen is brighter, together with a mat finish it is better for using outside.
I’m really flummoxed at why the MacBooks continue to be spicy. When using then laptop with a charger using the grounded cable on the socket side there used to be no spice. Now that adapters are mostly only used with two prong connectors the spicyness is ubiquitous.
I recall audio equipment also not being grounded because the industry prefers not being grounded over being accidentally grounded to two different grounds causing voltage transients. Maybe the same reason now also applies to MacBooks? Or does someone know another reason why the outer shell of a MacBook is still spicy.
As others have mentioned: battery, build quality, Linux-ish ecosystem. If I could get all three in another laptop I would go for it, but nothing comes close at the moment. There was a very brief moment in time where the XPS came close, and then the M series rolled out and eradicated the competition on performance + battery life.
Laptops are unergonomic by default, no matter how you position them, either the screen is too low or the keyboard is too high. I think most developers just use them docked with an external monitor and keyboard most of the time (I certainly do).
it's not a binary equation. My thinkpad is plenty ergonomic for a full work day on the road. Sure the monitor position is suboptimal but keyboard is brilliant, no sharp edges, no screen glare and there's a trackpoint. It's no home setup obviously but at least I don't actively suffer when I do need to use a portable computer for it's primary purpose.
I have also been using Macbooks for around 10 years, Airs and Pros, and usually my wrists are on the flat part, when docked I used a keyboard.
Keyboard on Macs is pretty much good, other than the early butterfly version, rest is definitely above average and it just feels good. Glare is a problem, but darkest basement is an overstatement.
It might not fit your workflow or you might be expecting super niche, but it is the worlds most popular laptop for both regular users and developers for a reason. Input devices and screen are significant part of the Macbook appeal, so definitely not almost unusable.
This is why I prefer tactile (not clicky) mechanical keyboards to linear mechanical or "mushy" non-mechanical desktop keyboards: they're easy to reliably trigger without full travel.
I also like the short-travel Apple keyboards, though, and if Apple made a tenkeyless Magic Keyboard with the standard layout for cursor movement keys, I'd probably be using it.
I don't like the sharp corners either and I fully support the modifications in the article, but to be completely fair to the design, if your wrists are digging into the corners you're at the wrong angle. If you're habitually typing with bent wrists you're going to have problems. The "butterfly" keyboard was also (famously) terrible, but the newer ones, especially with the proper inverted-T cursor keys, are fine (for a laptop) imho. My ideal laptop keyboard would be split and orthogonal, but that's far too weird to make it anywhere close to mass production.
> dead battery? mac wont start for 15 min on connecting power
Having just received an M4 in the mail with a completely flat battery, I can confirm this is nearer 10 seconds on Apple silicon (you are correct it used to be this way on Intel Macs)
Having an M1 and an M2, no it isn't. Takes at least 5 minutes on the 65W charger to get bootable from a full drain. Maybe something changed with the newer models but it isn't a benefit across all Apple Silicon.
Oh yeah I hate those sharp edges on MacBooks. The old pre-unibody macbooks were great but I can't stand anything that came after it. Always had red lines on my wrists. These days I'm completely off Mac luckily.
And yes the keyboards are terrible too. Up to 2015 it was OK but I can't work with the butterfly ones and the "new and improved" scissor ones that came after that. They still have a lot less travel than the ones from up to 2015.
I never sanded my metal macbooks though I did do so with a plastic one I had. I just didn't really use them much as laptop anymore.
The build quality and least-nonsense OS is why I like it. Huge caveat though, I keep it plugged into a KVM setup so I don't actually use it directly, but I do keep it open on the side of my desk for meetings.
It's been a problem for a decade (or more?) but, for me, it's not just the sharp edge, it's also the angle of the keyboard.
My Dell XPS is almost as sharp (there's a microscopic chamfer, which won't be enough to explain the difference), but because the body is wedge-shaped, the keyboard sits at a slight angle which makes it feel so much better to me. Propping the back of the Macbook on something helps - only needs to be 2-3mm to make a difference.
It's like the static electricity issues that plagued them in the 2010s. They produced shocks that were actually painful, the sort that I've only experienced before from CRT screens in metal housings. The chargers contained a grounding pin internally, but it wasn't actually connected to anything. Utter madness, and would have been such an easy thing to fix - but it persisted until they replaced the charging port with usb-c.
Every single time I get up and then sit back down, I have to brace myself for electrical impact. Maybe it's the universe telling me to stop working (or stop taking breaks... hmm).
I have a plastic case which helps with the bottom, and when I'm at an angle where my wrist rests against the edge, I have a wrist brace thing that takes the edge off (literally).
> Trackpad: I don't use a mouse anymore, no other laptop comes close
I always hear this but don't get it. Every time I use a Mac laptop, I hate the touchpad. Maybe it's the defaults but I don't feel it's more accurate or anything... Why do people think it's good? A certain acceleration profile?
I much prefer the commodity Synaptics trackpads I've had on my last 2 laptops, running Linux with Gnome and now Hyprland. I just crank the sensitivity, have all the gestures enabled, tap to click and 2 finger reverse scrolling and am happy.
My only complaint is with the EN-international keyboard my company prefers - there is no way to reverse the tilde key position back to the same place next to 1 on the US keyboard. The OS knows what keyboard the laptop has and refuses to change it.
You can see how I did mine here if you're interested:
https://github.com/bruse/dotfiles/tree/main/macOS (I suspect com.local.KeyRemapping.plist is most interesting, but the key layout file is there too, with some comments on how it was generated).
I remember multiple reviews of other laptops that indeed came close in all of those categories. So those statements are objectively wrong.
Problem is that I dont remember which, and if I remembered the model might very well not be in stock anymore. The other vendors with their always changing lineup of models make that impossible by choice.
The HP ZBook G1a comes close in computing power, screen, sound and trackpad quality - but not at all in battery life: about 7 hours. It's also pretty overpriced, but discounts are common.
"comes close" in itself is a very relative concept. So how can you claim my statements are "objectively wrong"?. Depends on how close "close" is, right.
If you can provide me an example of a laptop that beats one of those categories, it's objectively wrong. In all other cases, nope.
I just did this to my MacBook not because of the sharp edge but because the pitting turns a sharp edge into a sawblade. Something about the grounding on on the frame when plugged in mixed with my sweaty hands leads to damage along this sharp edge on every MacBook I've ever owned.
Oh is that why it happens? Was wondering why the spot directly under my wrist was pitted into a sawblade. I also filed it, though just enough to remove the pitting, nothing like the OP did.
It's easy for me to feel the mains frequency while gently rubbing the top surface of the MacBook while it's plugged in. Really feels unsafe, but neither me nor the computer have suffered any serious injuries yet.
Really feels unsafe, but neither me nor the computer have suffered any serious injuries yet.
That's due to interference suppression capacitor in the PSU. The safety standard puts the "touch current" limit at something like 300uA (0.3mA), which is definitely in "painful but not dangerous" territory. You do need to exercise caution when plugging in other devices that are also connected to the mains, since that amount of current and voltage can certainly damage sensitive electronics.
I have super dry skin and I also feel that weird ac effect when lightly touching and moving along the surface of pretty much any aluminum mac device since they started making them aluminum.
And almost no other device I've ever used. My aluminum Framework does not do it. My wifes magnesium LG Gram does not do it.
I have felt it on other things but only extremely rarely. It's bizarre that whatever it is they're doing different, it's probably wrong, and they've kept doing it in every device for decades.
To describe the effect in more detail for anyone who doesn't already know: It's like the case is alternately grabbing and releasing your skin at 60hz.
It's a bit like chatter, ie the periodic friction you use to ring a wine glass by wetting the rim and then running your finger along it. It rings because the combination of the friction, the lack of friction from hydroplaning, and the rubbery give of your skin, makes your skin alternately grab and release 30,000 times a second. Only in this case you are only barely touching the case not pressing enough to make any friction or make a squeal noise. It's like static electric charge attraction. Just touching the case you feel nothing, but move your finger along the surface and you feel it vibrate your finger without any friction to explain it.
It's unsettling and displeasing, which are strange words to expect from an apple device at least when you are only talking about the design and not the tech stack or corporate behavior. It makes me think of cheap electronics from a country with no consumer safety regulations that will probably burn down every 3rd house they wind up in.
It's probably harmless, but then again a lot of things that are harmless in short infrequent doses turn out to have been harmful after you did it for 10 hours a day for 20 years.
They can’t, it’s caused by the capacitors required to suppress electromagnetic interference caused by the switch-mode power supply. These allow a very very tiny amount of current to leak through from the mains side, which is then capacitively coupled to the metal case (IIRC Apple do not connect the case to power negative) reducing it further, but it’s enough for humans to sense it.
It can be avoided by using a grounded power supply, but because there are large countries that have ungrounded outlets in common use the most designs are ungrounded.
Why do only Macbooks suffer from this problem? When I had a work-issued Macbook I charged it and my personal Framework off the same USB-C charger and I only every felt the leaking current from the Macbook
It's not only mac's suffering from this problem. My old dell latitude with magnesium case had the same thing. I didn't fully understand why and some people thought I was mad for feeling it but it was there.
Only Apple is insane enough to make actual laptop chassis with unpainted anodized aluminum. Others either do it in plastics and/or painted metal. And paints are kind of liquid plastics.
It’ll depend on how well grounded you are compared to how well grounded the laptop is, where it’s touching your body, and your sensitivity to electricity which varies.
Definitely been a long standing issue on many laptops with exposed metal parts. Late 90’s, if I used my brother’s Compaq while putting my feet up on the radiator, the metal speaker grills would give me mild shocks.
I once had an HP with an aluminum case and it had a grounded power supply but if you plugged it in without grounding his an adapter (sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do). You could feel it straight up vibrate while conducting current if you rubbed your hand over it. Not enough to shock me but it felt like kind of a shoddy design and leaked a lot more current than I've felt on a MacBook.
Is that what it is! On my pre-unibody MBP I used to run my finger across the body sometimes and it had this weird wavy feeling (honestly can't describe it well). I thought it was just a quirk of the aluminium itself!
You can fix it by switching to one of the grounded charger heads. Unfortunately in most locales those are only available with an integrated extension cable (or as everyone seems to call them, the "gooseneck" cables)
It happens with other 2-pin chargers on both MacBooks and other laptops, but it depends upon various factors how strong the leakage is
It's also an issue on the new Neo. It was the first thing I noticed when I tried one in the Apple Store. I unplugged the power cable and it went away, replugged and it came back. I'm in the UK so I expected grounded electricity supply.
If you buy the UK 1.8-metre Power Adapter Extension Cable, this has a metal ground pin that grounds through the metal clip on the power brick. I switched all my MacBook & iPad chargers to this, no more earth leakage sensation from metal casing.
You wouldn't have this if your plug was properly grounded. Most developed countries have plugs that have grounding. EU via side pins UK via third prong
To add to this, I notice this more frequently in the UK and EU countries than in some other parts of the world (although it varies within each country quite a bit).
Apple avoids shipping grounded plugs as if it was personal affront to Ive. Also caused many many times for me to be shocked with electrostatic build-up.
> all my EU/UK macbook plugs I got from apple are always grounded, metal prong and metal side pins
The short version, where you remove the extension with the 3-prong plug and attach the plug directly to the charger brick, is only available in 2-prong in the EU/US (the UK thankfully still gets all 3 prongs in this configuration)
There are grounded duckheads for this purpose, e.g. https://amzn.to/4cnzuef (note out of stock. I guess your best bet is to use a UK duckhead, but half of those have a dummy ground...)
if you take the plug part from the brick you'll note that there's only two pins but the button-like thing is a ground
There's zero chance that the DC ground in the laptop is tied to earth ground in the charger: they use LLC resonant converters and flyback converters (depending on vintage) - an earth ground tie would defeat the purpose of these isolated topologies.
Probably. But, the time when the laptop is taped off would be uniquely a good time to hit it with some polyurethane or something clear to protect it from that sort of damage? Just make sure you hit it with compressed air first so you aren't gluing the aluminum dust to the chassis?
True; however, this is an aluminium alloy. These typically have lower corrosion resistance and are most commonly anodized because of it. The applied layer is typically 3 to 5x thicker than that formed by pure aluminium oxidization.
It’s extremely common and nothing to worry about. As a brass instrument player, I sometimes come across someone whose instruments always deteriorate at 300% of the rate of others. Laquer peels, silver plating blackens, etc.
I’ve been traveling around the world. It is 50 / 50 of the socket is properly grounded —-anywhere in the world. I get a tingling zap on the wrist when not properly grounded. The charger also gets hot and sparks.
only two prongs of which make it through. Usually the regulation as I understand is that it's fine if you can prove the case can never get in contact with anything electric, for most laptops that's just being made of plastic.
The big recess above the pins is what encases the button of the charger and provides grounding if it includes metal strips. Assuming the charger itself has a metal button.
In the EU a grounded cable has been the default forever (I have a grounded cable from my 2010 MBP which I use as travel cable for my 2021 MBP)
That should not happen with a well designed power supply. It sounds like Apple cut some corners "for design reasons", or some shortcut to make it cheaper to manufacture.
Yes, it is fairly common with some plastics. better plastics won't but there are a lot of different plastics with differt formulas (and many can be mixed)
Really? Co-worker 4 is just repeating a pun. Using "sharpe" to mix the meanings of "good looking" and "literally sharpe" is a well known joke. Almost a dad-joke, a joke that's been done so many times that everyone recognizes when it's there to be done, but the person who actually does it out loud will annoy people with their predictability.
It's pretty common if you have IT and finance teams that are paying attention. Sure a lot of shops let them waste away on a shelf, but that's what it is, waste. If you have fungible inventory that isn't likely to get used soon it is just a mistake it let it sit around unutilized. If it is cash, it is easier to utilize on other projects.
Ours are on lease, but the leasing company will release some from time to time for auctions at $DAYJOB. I've won 2. Using one, son flipped the other one for a couple hundred dollar profit.
Idk if it's common anymore, but some companies rent equipment rather than purchase it. So they'd have to return everything back to the rental company, who is expecting normal wear and tear, not intentional "customization."
Not to well actually your well actually but they’re all anodized to prevent corrosion and scratches (the oxide layer is harder than the underlying aluminum) - the silver one is just undyed.
And in the pictures you can see a clear color difference between the anodized silver body and the exposed aluminum. It's subtle from a distance, but if you zoom in a bit its pretty obvious
You have to grind off the existing Al2O3 protective layer using sandpapers/sandblasters and/or power tools, then ultrasound + acetone wash the parts, then dump it into an acid bath while running electrical current through the pieces. Special dyes can be added for color. Then the pieces are boiled in regular water to further improve durability. The combination of the acid and electricity then boiling cause Al to form beehive shaped surface micropores, and dyes - actually inorganic, so pigments - gets electrically jammed into the pores. The whole outer surface become thick insulating layer of highly chemically resistant and mechanically rigid white/transparent Al2O3 once the process is complete. Voltage, current, waveform, temperature, solution acidity, etc etc affect colors and oxide thickness and shapes and sizes therefore aesthetics as well as durability. "Anodization" refers to this process of electro-acidic-heat formation of the oxide layer, not the coloring. The coloring powder is an extra.
Technically it can be done in a garage, but spot and/or intact application might be difficult. Strict color matching against Apple made things would be impossible.
This made me smile because in my book this is at every effect impossible, especially if the goal is getting a functioning laptop at the end of the process.
To be clear, it's impossible for me because I lack the knowledge, expertise and tooling to even think about doing it.
Depending on the field you want to gain knowledge it can mean: “famous last words” or “missing body parts”.
Nothing against the spirit of learning and challenge one’s skills. But especially people on YouTube show of quite dangerous things and sell them as everybody can do it. My list here:
Metal / Wood work on a lathe with off center or unbalanced pieces in a 3 jaw chuck.
Playing around with lithium batteries to build bigger battery packs (DYI Perks did this and even though he mentions the dangers of doing that (fire or electric shock) it’s still inspires people to do the same in their living rooms.
Then is playing with chemicals.
Again I’m not saying don’t do it. But one should ease into things not just grab a random set of chemicals and disassemble a laptop and hook up a power supply etc by just following a list from the internet.
13 year old me who anodised remote control car chassis completely agrees the process is quite simple.
In the context of a MacBook, it’s not. Removing just the aluminium components and leaving everything that doesn’t like baths undamaged is practically impossible for amateurs. I’m not sure it’s something many professionals would take on.
I think it could be possible for the bottom half. The lid would be way, way trickier (unless you have one with a broken screen already and know how to put the new one together).
I’m wondering what custom colours you could do with that process btw!
Practically anything! Vibrant colours work best, and there are techniques to do transitions, fades, and masking to get multiple colours, though I’ve never done those myself.
> Why the dye? I thought anodising's colour comes only from the voltage used, with no dye needed.
That's true for anodization processes for some other metals like titanium and stainless steel, but aluminum is dyed. Also the process is material specific. Anodization for Al is only possible because Al does that unique self organizing micropore thing.
To echo the sibling comment: approximately not, it's a strong acid bath which precludes operating electronics in it, and it's electrochemistry.
People do home anodizing all the time, but colored home anodizing on electronics is very rare.
The way to do it would be wrapping it in, say, a wet paper towel with your strong acid solution (but not sulfuric, because that would turn the paper into pure carbon foam) and running outside current from the laptop through the paper to a cathode, or vice versa.
You really can't fully disassemble current macbooks and put them back together without major tooling - the chassis is not just a wrapper, it's structural to the way they're interconnected, lots of glue and things like that.
The slight groove that was there on the middle of the base which allowed you to stick your finger to open the top had sharp corners that poked my wrists and i filed them both off on the first, and only, macbook I used in 2014 or so m
I love the line “People like to freak out about this, so I wanted to post it here to make sure that everyone who wants to freak out about it gets the opportunity to do so.”
I think the main problem is that you lose the surface anodization and might end up with a more frail surface there (surface, the structural integrity is going to suffer but not much I guess)
I have literally cut my finger with a sharp edge of one of my Apple laptops. Like a paper cut. Filing the edges down is the right way to do it. However - for that price it should've be done by Apple at their factory.
Also the two corner points next to the air slits underneath the screen when folded open. When I wipe away dust there it can feel slightly uncomfortable.
The pci extension slot edges in most PC cases or the IO are way sharper. I’ve cut myself regularly on those when I was a little kid tweaking cases.
I was pulling mine to the bed from it being vertical against my bedside table along the intake slit. I didn't have a good enough old and it slipped through my finger/thumb and the slit edge raised a well and proper blood blister in my thumb.
The seasons idea is interesting -- to me, both proposals feel wrong. I think it's because the weather changes that I perceive seem to lag behind the changes to daylight length by a few weeks.
I would propose boundaries that align partly with how I perceive the weather, and partly with how we plan our year (by months): Summer starts June 1st, Fall starts September 1st, Winter starts December 1st, and Spring starts March 1st.
Ocean currents, elevation and distance from the equator also have a big impact on what the season is going to feel like.
There's no need to change the dates. They're already arbitrary based on the position of the sun and the earth and people have the experience to take them with the grain of salt necessary to the region they live in. People who live near the equator probably don't have much care for the notion of the winter at all. Folks who live far up north know that spring actually comes in much later than march 21st. People who climb glaciated mountains in the canadian rockies know they won't get summer conditions until late june.
That's how it works in Australia, though rotated six months: Summer starts December 1, Autumn starts March 1, Winter starts June 1, and Spring starts September 1. I think it even has legal status. In the North of the country though they typically just use wet and dry season.
I've also always thought that the equinoxes and solstices should be the middle of the seasons, so using the 'cross-quarter' days as the beginning of seasons makes more sense.
Forcing seasons into chunks of equal duration also feels wrong, to me but also anyone I recall having a conversation with so seeing every HN comment assuming all seasons are 3 months long is somewhat perplexing.
In my country the dates you stated are what are considered the start of the seasons. This year there was a very clear change between winter and spring on March 1st. February was cloudy and minus, March was sunny and plus.
Sunrise and sunset don't shift at the same time, and December 1 is right about where sunset approaches it's earliest time (where I am it's 4:19, vs the earliest at 4:18 on Dec 8)
Summer doesn't work with that association though, with the latest sunset being the end of June instead of the start.
> I would propose boundaries that align partly with how I perceive the weather, and partly with how we plan our year (by months): Summer starts June 1st, Fall starts September 1st, Winter starts December 1st, and Spring starts March 1st.
You do realize there's also a southern hemisphere on planet Earth?
We were taught the same (Australian) - though it always felt slightly off as March often has major heatwaves, and December can be quite spring-like, often cool and wet.
Adelaide’s climate anecdotally feels to be more humid in recent years (historically bone dry Mediterranean climate) and the seasons feel like they’ve shifted a few weeks forward.
The Kaurna (Australian Aboriginal people of Adelaide, pronounced Gar-nuh) apparently mapped seasons a little differently, with a longer summer that resonates with my experience:
It's funny, because back home by the Great Lakes, the solstice system aligns better with the seasons than his system. Peak "cold" is usually in January or early February, and you'll generally get one straggler snowfall sometime in March. Peak "hot" is sometime in July or August, with June being when the temperature noticeably goes from "springy" to "summery."
Yes, the black will wind up 2-tone when you get through the top layer. Mine get silvery to the sides of my trackpad from hand friction over time. I like the laptop in black, but silver ages far better.
There's a significant lag between the longer days and the resulting higher temperatures though, which does make the seasons make more sense temperature-wise.
Does Europe and America really call the summer solstice the “start” of summer. Wow.
In India our summer holidays start at the end of March and finish in the start of June. That’s usually our hottest months too. And a lot of our regional “New Year” calendar’s and related festivals are on April 14th and can probably be considered the start of summer.
Hottest day of the year in the US varies by 3 months from California to Texas, which is only about half the width of the country. I would imagine the region you're in has a different hottest day of the year from say Kashmir or your neighbor Sri Lanka.
I don't know whether to call it a corner case or not, but I was pretty easily able to find this one (based on my own experience – the peak temperature in the East Bay has always felt very late in the year): https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/541~3268/Comparison-of-th...
Probably depends on where you are, etc., but as an European, I was taught in school two ways of splitting the year up into seasons: calendar/astrological and meteorological. Calendar split is based on solstices and equinoxes (21st March, 21st June, ...), whereas meteorological is based on month start (1st March, 1st June, ...). They use this also in weather reports, for example, where on 1st March they would add "Today starts meteorological spring" and on 21st March "Today starts calendar spring".
On the seasons front, traditionally in Ireland winter starts on Halloween (at sunset if you want to be really specific), and so you get winter is November till January, spring is February to April, summer is May to July and autumn is August to October.
That said being an English speaking country and absorbing a lot of media from other English speaking countries, there’s been a slow drift towards the American system making its way in, so younger generations are more likely to use American seasons and older people more likely to use traditional seasons, though you’ll find people of all age groups using either. Certainly they taught the traditional seasons in school when I was a kid, I wonder which they teach now.
(Of course, you could make yet another system based on the weather where summer is approximately two weeks in July, winter is a thing that happens every few years and the rest is a sequence of mild weather with occasional wind and scattered showers)
I find the "solstices/equinoxes mark starts of seasons" a bit foreign too, but… weather-wise, annual top and bottom temperatures are of course offset from the solstices due to thermal inertia.
In Finland the traditional division is that winter is Dec-Feb, spring is Mar-May, summer is Jun-Aug, and autumn is Sep-Nov. Historically it has made perfect sense, weather and climate wise – particularly from the point of view of agriculture, which is of course the reason people used to think about seasons in the first place!
February in particular is 100% winter in Finland with no signs of spring besides the days starting to get very noticeably longer by then. It's often the coldest month of the year and when schools usually have a week-long winter break. Similarly, August is very definitely a summer month except in the far north where spring comes late and autumn early. The academic year in schools and universities typically starts at the end of August, so that's a clear and important dividing line in many people's lifes. In Southern Finland, December is these days rather autumny more often than not, and there's often no lasting snow until January (if even then). June is a crapshoot, it can be nice and warm or surprisingly cold.
I guess Jan-Feb are definitely winter, Apr-May definitely spring, Jul-Aug definitely summer, and Oct-Nov definitely autumn. The rest are kind of transitional and their weather unpredictable. Of course, the climate change isn't helping things, either.
It's also funny how Finland has a concept of "thermic spring", which is defined by the temperature no longer dipping below 0° C, and the term doesn't exist in English because the definition wouldn't work in the climate of most of the English-speaking world.
The definition would certainly work in English countries, seeing it is just 0 to 10 degrees Celsius average over the course of a week (and after 15th of February).
On holidays, in the US, Thanksgiving is Fall-themed so we wouldn't want to start winter until after the 4th Thursday of November (which because of how it shifts around, pretty much means December).
You can get some black "machinist's layout bluing" which will stain it better than a sharpie would. It's not going to be a perfect color match but better than 50%
The author seems to not realize the season are about temperature not about sunlight. If you align the season to northern hemisphere temperatures, where the first week of August is usually the hottest, they make sense.
Sounds kinda like pain stimming. I'm not personally a fan, but that's a thing some autistic people do. They make purpose-built toys for that, though you might already be set with your laptop.
I am autistic and I also enjoy the sharp edges, I rub my wrists up and down them sometimes and generally play with them, I find it very satisfying. I also suspect the laptop might not be as easy to carry around when open if edges were rounded?
I'm conflicted -- the author's rounded Mac looks more comfortable to use, but aesthetically it looks worse. He turned the track pad notch into an amorphous shape that looks like a mistake.
There's certainly a % of mac users who prioritize aesthetics over function.
I feel like there's got to be a way to do this in a way that's more attractive though. Maybe something more gradual or even.
I suspect that with all things Apple 10% really care, 80% are indifferent and 10% really hate it. The middle 80% are happy to be led by those that really care.
I don't think there's anything inherently autistic about that. We just finally have these technologies sufficiently mature that materials and design are no longer strictly dictated by their function.
These objects are becoming more like clothing and less like unyielding industrial machines. It's to the point that I'd be genuinely disgusted to handle any used laptop regardless of how "clean" it is.
Love this! I did this in 2020 and until today I hadn't seen anyone else who had done it. If anyone is tempted, I recommend finishing the job with Micro-Mesh. IIRC, I went up to 12,000 grit and it results in a nicely polished look that catches the light beautifully.[1] I bet it would look even more striking on the actual black MacBooks we have today.
Black macbooks are anodized aluminum which are thin coatings that would be removed when filing. It might look cool but it’d be the silvery color of raw aluminum
I never owned the MacBook I used and the current one I do own I still consider selling one day. That's the only reason I'm not ready to replicate this on my own.
The edges are indeed extremely uncomfortable, not to mention how cold it is in winter.
Luckily its just sitting on a stand 99.9% of the time
Yeah, I had thin insulation strips running around these edges because my wrists were legit getting sore from these edges. And then Apple replaced the bottom case so they're back, as sharp as ever.
Thank you! I zoomed in on the photo looking for sanded corners on the MacBook and saw none. Took me a sec to finally see the amorphous edge nr the trackpad...
Apple computers are made for those who purchases a computer. They are engineered to look great on a demo shelf.
«During the first Jobsian era at Apple, I used to joke that Steve Jobs cared deeply about Apple customers from the moment they first considered purchasing an Apple computer right up until the time their check cleared the bank.» (Bruce Tognazzini)
Of course it worked. Apple turned from a company that sells electronic equipment into a company that sells media consumption devices which double as fashion accessories signaling high social status. Of course the addressable market is 2-3 orders of magnitude larger.
They still sell computers, which count below 10% of the revenue, and are also partly fashion accessories.
When I had a MacBook, I was quickly compelled to do something about the fact that its sharp edges scraped things, most notably scraping off the surface of my fingernails.
I wasn't thrilled with a product design that required a case to protect the rest of the world from the product, but it obviously makes more sense than trying to file the MacBook yourself.
I have thought about filing/sanding my MacBook forever and getting a case to solve the problem never even occurred to me. I feel a little silly now because it does seem obvious, but also to me just filing it down sounds like less work than picking out a case.
I thought this was going to be on a softwarefix for the appalling inconsistency that are macOS Tahoe window corners. What I found deeply disturbed me, though I must agree, the edges are a bit more sharp then I'd like and a slight curvature could probably prevent them showing wear and tear [0]. Good on op for doing something they like, even if it's really out there and I could see more "pillowy" hardware becoming a thing now, after a few years of sharp edged devices.
Since I mentioned Tahoe, it bears repeating, my spotlight is still broken.
if you want to do this, there is a better technique than shown in this video.
get a single-cut fine file, maybe with a little more weight than the one in the video. single cut file has diagonal slots and allows firm and continuous contact with the piece. most files are double cut, have two sets of slots and look like bumpy diamonds. they remove more material but tend to bounce.
use long even strokes with firm pressure, only during the fore stroke. watch out for roll-off, where you unconsciously change the angle or pressure of the file as you're at the end of the stroke.
you can make a pretty even-looking chamfer that way.
I've been thinking of just using sandpaper stuck to a block of wood, though I imagine that might be slower.
Heck, a little part of me is tempted to try the smallest radius round-over router bit I have in a trim router, but the odds of that going horribly wrong are just way too high.
I can see Apple doing something similar in the future. Just like how they are pivoting away from flat design in their ui, perhaps the time is ready for a more "organic" design. Wonder what marketing term they would use
is this an employer-issued computer? Like if I did something similar on my DELL laptop (us lowly devs at %DAY_JOB% don't have Macs), management would be up my ass the minute they saw this, if only because the maintenance agreement the company has with our supplier will likely be voided for my machine.
Design aside, the quality is undeniable, the price is reasonable and the M chips have been in their own league of efficiency. (Tho the new Intel and Qualcomm chips look to be catching up)
I, too, only use Macs when my employer forces me to do so. Here's how I made it bearable: MacBook lid stays closed at all times; plug it into a Thunderbolt hub (requires just 1 Thunderbolt port for everything); connect a proper matte monitor, external keyboard, Logitech mouse.
Now the only annoying things are the MacOS window manager (uBar attempts to fix this, but is flaky) and the weird keyboard mappings for things like "start of line", "end of line", "previous word", etc. Karabiner fixes those if you're willing to invest 3 hours in setting it up.
> weird keyboard mappings for things like "start of line", "end of line", "previous word"
Those are Emacs keybindings, and they're also present by default in Bash since they were copied by GNU Readline. They're one of the few things I really like about macOS. (But I'm an Emacs user and I'm also used to using them in my terminal.)
The window manager never stops sucking. Rectangle and Contexts or Witch help. Ice helps with the stupid menu bar design and problems with overflowing icons or oversized menus.
It's actually reveal the major issue in Apple products where aesthetics prevail over tactile. Sharp edges and aluminium is the worst way to make things that people use by fingers. I have some older version of Apple TV remote control and every day I wonder how it was approved to production, it's barely usable.
I'm strongly convinced that modern iPhones designed to use in case as basic idea, while using iPhone without case is like using that Nokia phone unit when you take the housing off. In that case I think that iPad with magnetic keyboard (which is soft-touch plastic) is the future of Apple mobile computers.
Yes the front edge is too sharp for me too, more on the middle right where I rest my hand. It hurts.
I think there must be a better solution than a file, like an attachment to effectively round the edges, or even something like fingerless gloves.
On the other hand Apple always replace the top case when the keyboard needs changing so the filing approach may not be entirely insane. It might send a message to Apple.
I feel like glueing on an attachment or putting on gloves (!!) to use your laptop is in fact a much worse solution to the issue of "edge is too sharp" than...making the edge less sharp...
Especially the gloves, come one, that's peak Apple "you're just using it wrong" mentality. Apple made a bad usability decision for the sake of sexier design. It's not your fault, it's theirs. Fix the defect, not yourself.
My work computer is missing two keys and has been since they signed it out to me.
I'm betting they don't notice if I file down the corners. Hell they probably wouldn't notice if I just cut the corners off with a fret saw. But God forbid I try to install an ad blocker or use Firefox.
I promise you they’re claiming taxes on the depreciation of that machine every year. If anything they’ll be upset you didn’t tell them sooner so they could have claimed more.
If you're a US employee being paid market wages, the cost of the Macbook is rather trivial compared to how much you cost the company, and how much it costs them for you to be not working. But some lower-level managers and employees don't seem to understand this.
“DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE PRICE FOR THE PARTS AND LABOR TO REPLACE A SINGLE, GENUINE, APPLE-BRAND, 2021, MACBOOK PRO KEYCAP?!?! CALL THE ACCOUNTANTS, WE WONT BE PAYING TAXES FOR A FEW YEARS!!!”
> Doing this to a work computer seem a bit questionable from the ethical standpoint.
"Ethical standpoint" seems like the wrong choice of words. I think you mean "equipment ownership standpoint.". Ethical implies a set of values, vs contractual terms of equipment use.
You can't be unethical to your employer, only to people like your coworkers and customers, or other living beings that your business activity impacts.
Honestly that was the cherry on top for me -- the employee confident enough to just decide "this is my work computer, I need it to do work, I can't do work with my hands being irritated, so I will sand down the edge." Pure gold.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to freak out about it. I did so, but only a little bit. Then i thought about how i have sometimes felt the bottom corner to be a bit uncomfortable. But then i thought that it wasnt a big enough issue to be worth the effort of filing off the edge
Also a little bit pedantry, you seem to have mostly filed the edge off, which seemed to be the real issue, the corners on that center divet are filed off, but its mostly edges
I have a similar problem. My handicap makes it impossible to use the huge trackpad of all newer MacBooks. I am working still with a 2012 MacBook Pro that had a considerable smaller trackpad. Any idea from you guys how to circumvent these trackpad monsters? Thanks for any suggestion.
Are your wrists supposed to be coming into contact with that? I suspect many of us have bad posture and do rest our wrists like that, but if your concern is wrist comfort, you probably want to consider that you're going out of your way to enable harmful posture.
A few weeks ago I accidentally dropped my space grey MBP. It had the lip open and fell on its right corner, inner/keyboard side.
The machine is fine and I didn’t even have to adjust the screen as it was still correctly in place but on that corner the aluminium lifted up forming a mountain shape, about 2 mm tall and very sharp.
Not only this was uncomfortable, but it also meant I couldn’t close the lid properly and might eventually crack the screen from it, so I filed it away. Like OP, I started with a pretty gritty file to get most of the tip off, then finished with a multi-tool with the sanding attachment. I went through a few grits but I got bored long before it was smooth.
In the end, I actually liked the look, and have been considering going all around like OP. I may have to do it now.
I feel like this is only a problem if you’re keeping your wrists at an unergonomic angle. I’m not saying that everyone is perfect all the time but like this is barely an issue if you’re sitting at your desk?
Yes. I keep mine on my lap. My regimen is that I wake up at 3am and lie on the couch for several hours with coffee and write code (or these days, ask "someone else" to). It is highly productive and enjoyable and breaks all the rules and no I do not have RSI. Long ago I started sandpapering the edges because yeah otherwise it hurts my wrists.
It's a good move. I have a case on my MBP that helps with this because it means the edges are plastic for me, and not quite so sharp.
If you want to break more rules, you might consider chickenwing-ing your arms a bit. Deviate from the homerow and learn to feel your way around at other angles. Then you can hold the laptop closer to you without putting your wrists at a weird angle (though you may have to use a non-thumb finger for spacebar, as I do).
As I type this, my laptop is partly on my belly and partly on my chest, and my wrists are so far out to the sides that they completely miss the front edge of the laptop altogether. The angle is pretty favorable, too: my palms rest on the laptop on either side of the trackpad, and my wrists rest over the left and right sides of the bottom case but have little to no pressure on them.
No RSI here, either. Just make sure you're loose and comfortable and not forcing anything! That seems to help a lot.
I'm not brave enough to try this on my own, but I applaud the effort. I'm pretty sure I'm developing lasting calluses on the underside of my wrists from all the constant rubbing against the sharp edge of my MBP.
A spinal injury three years ago made me above-averagely aware of ergonomics, as I created a dedicated office (chairs, floating supports for monitors, keyboards, etc.) that would support the injury.
I have to say that I now access the 8 or so machines across my LAN and VPS via a Macbook Air rested on my lap, either through RDP or SSH. I probably use this 80% of the time. Because the machine is on my lap, held up at about 30 degrees on my lap, I can't say I ever noticed the sharp edges, until this post!
my m1 max macbook pro 14 has small little divots out of the edge on the right side (not on the left) presuambly because of where my wrist sits when using the track pad. It would be nice it there was some radius on it to not cause that.
Not just you. If you use the Apple extension cord with the 3 prong outlet plug, this doesn’t happen.
MacBooks (and many laptops) have a tiny amount of alternating current that leaks through the metal chassis to ground. When you use the compact 2-prong power adapter (the “duck head” without a ground pin), there’s no path for this leakage current to safely flow to earth ground — so it flows through you instead, creating that tingling sensation.
Interestingly I haven’t felt this when using my 2 prong NAND Anker adapter.
I've been meaning to do this forever and think this game me the push I've needed to do it tonight when I get home. Probably not as rounded as OP, but it's reassuring to know I could go that rounded and it wouldn't fall apart.
maybe a better approach to start with computers that already have ergonomic chassis (they exist) and then spend energy for modifying tools on what happens inside of them?
Jony Ive here. I’ll come back and help make your new keyboard perfectly flat and seamless- touchpad based, and we’ll remove all ports. Bluetooth devices only.
Alan Dye here. I'm coming back to Apple, and the next versions of the operating systems will not even have visible controls or icons. You just have to click on the beautiful, clear windows and hope you're interacting with the right UI elements.
Cave Johnson here. I'll be honest, we're throwing science at the wall here to see what sticks. No idea what it'll do. Probably nothing. Best-case scenario, you might get some superpowers.
Scott Forstall here. I’ll resign before I apologize for the choices we make at Apple. All our research shows you’re gonna love it, and if you say you don’t it’s because you’re wrong, not me.
I had a blackberry passport and it had a lot going for it(best keyboard ever on a phone) but one thing I really liked for reasons I don't understand is it had a square screen and took square photos.
Square (or squarish) formats were pretty standard in pro photography once upon a time. Bliss, the Windows wallpaper, was shot on a camera that shoots in 6x7 natively (that's a nominal 6cm x 7cm, really it's more like 55mm x 65mm) A lot of other medium format cameras also shot in 6x7 or 6x6. And of course, 8x10 is still the standard "medium size print." I find square (or squarish) easier to compose with than wide ratios. Street photography, portraits, and sports photography don't often benefit from wider ratios, to name a few examples.
That looks genuinely useful - I could see positioning a monitor like that on either side of my main monitor, at an angle, and using them for docs, reference material, slack, calendars, etc. All the screen space of a dual-monitor setup, without the separation right in the center! Ah well, shame they're no longer made.
Hmm. Android uses the curvy bits for status so the main area is rectangle. So it is OK. It has the advantage of curved corners on casing to reduce chance of cracking screen on a drop.
Or you could forget the borderless screen and add a bezel so I can hold my phone without touching the screen. Then you've got enough room to curve the corners and have square screen corners.
My custom XFWM theme has square corners on windows without focus and large-radius rounded corners on the one window with focus.
The square corners are part of a 2 pixel wide border (one black, one white) because who needs to waste space on handling things we aren't manipulating? But the title bar is high-contrast, because you'll go looking for it when you want to switch windows.
The round corners go with a fairly thick border in a customizable color, usually something very bright in the yellow, orange or cyan ranges. When you sit down, you should immediately know what is active.
For real. Doesn't help that the three/four finger swipe between full screen windows/workspaces has a mandatory animation that you can't disable (you can turn on "reduce motion", but it simply changes the scrolling animation into an equally time-wasting fading animation).
Virtual machines aren't the solution for day-to-day computing though. You're missing out on the graphics acceleration, being able to plug things in that just work, and so on.
Nope. Virtual windows are rectangular because the screen is also rectangular while being small enough to see the edges within our field of view.
They don't have to be any particular shape or size. The property of being virtual overrides everything else when free of these self-imposed constraints.
Even if you lose the GUI and go back to text, the ideal terminal is a plane of infinite columns of arbitrary cell size that dynamically fills your field of view.
I'd further argue that the only reason VR/AR isn't more widely adopted is the lack of orthographic vs perspective modality per application (and uncomfortable headsets). In VR/AR, you don't want a window manager or even windows at all. What you want is a field manager (as in FOV "fields" of varying opacity that can be composited by the user). Shape and size is just an arbitrary region blended in with the environment.
For the sake of ergonomics, you'd more often prefer to project an interface onto a surface if you had the choice. When you don't, you probably want the projection to be orthographic, but for the edges to be fuzzy if not invisible. You'd generally want to be able to layer these interfaces as well instead of having opaque rectangles always in your way.
I don't think GP was advocating for actually square windows. Rather that the corners should be right angles.
This makes perfect sense considering that most LCD displays, and practically all computer displays, don't have rounded corners. This trend of rounding displays and GUI elements is purely an aesthetic choice. I also find this obnoxious since the only thing it does is rob me of a few pixels which are often useful.
But considering Apple users have accepted living without a large block of pixels dead center at the top of the screen, which they've been sold as a "feature", the rounded corners are likely even less of an issue.
I'm not sure that an infinite plane of pixels makes sense even in XR. I want to see a clear edge of where digital content begins and ends, and a rectangle is the simplest and most optimal shape for that. So I would rather have physical display-like floating rectangles, than floating text in arbitrary locations, or rounded off corners for the sake of aesthetics. I'm not opposed to a very slight rounding off of edges on certain elements, but the trend Apple is pushing is supremely ridiculous.
Yeah I don't think we disagree. I just think you all's preference for windows, tiles, etc. (anything rectangular and opaque) is rooted in an idealistic efficiency of pixels (or irrational fear of deception?) just as unergonomic and frustrating to everyone else.
I'm saying that there is room for your arbitrary preference for opaque rectangles if we all abandon the notion of a "screen". We are well past the point where we can do this economically. It only persists because of consumer acceptance. Traditional screens are less efficient in every tangible way. They are less power efficient for their apparent brightness and require more material to construct.
Even the notion of clear boundaries and pixel size is an illusion. Traditional screens only make the pixels so big because they require sufficient brightness and power to see them at that distance, not because we cannot manufacture smaller pixels for cheaper. We could have much better results for everyone and the only remaining cost/problem is finding a way to comfortably wear the display.
Nice initiative but I would personally prefer adding some kind of padding, which is an easier solution to the problem, not as drastic, reversible, and less controversial. Unless doing something controversial is one of the goals here, which is also fair.
Thin padding? Removable padding? Squishable padding? (Is that a word?) I assume that filing the edge leaves an ugly gap when closing the lid, so that is not ideal either.
To my great dismay, I discovered the physical incompatibility of two Apple products recently: The sharp edge of my MBP and my Apple Watch’s magnetic strap. It seems that the magnets are an effective abrasive, resulting in a ruined strap and a rounded edge.
Thank you Apple, you have taken designed obsolescence to a new level.
I've done this to my MacBook around the sharp and unpleasant corners near the touchpad. I had the laptop a few weeks before I couldn't take how unpleasant it was to touch any more.
Cool, but why is the most rounded-off part in the center? My wrists cover the edge at 5-25% and 75-95% when typing. When mousing, my right hand fleshy pad covers the edge at 65-80%.
I think because they had to. The rounded-off center part is actually the part you usually stick your finger into to lift up the lid. So it wasn't done for wrist ergonomics, but rather because it would've otherwise been sharp. The result is a big hole in the center.
It looks a bit strange, but to each their own, I suppose.
EDIT: this thing, below the trackpad https://imgur.com/a/DVzlDOj (What’s that even called? And is there a better image hosting service than Imgur?)
It’s not only more comfortable to file off those sharp edges but also makes the laptop less dangerous to carry around. Those sharp edges not only cause discomfort but can chip paint, damage furniture, and inflict damage in general. If you had to you could use it as a weapon I suppose.
Yea, that's ugly. I'm sure it could've been done more gracefully with 15 minutes more effort. But judging from the general wear and tear on this poor Mac I guess they don't even consider the resale value.
Sure, but comfort != abuse :D
Apart from the filing, I can't think of ways to make such a recent Mac look like this. Did it suffer a plane crash? Acid attack? Thermite fire?
I appreciate the customization, but would probably make an effort to make it not look like (another) accident.
> This was on my work computer. I expect to similarly modify future work computers, and I would be happy to help you modify yours if you need a little encouragement.
I don’t understand the actual decision but I appreciate the gusto with which it was made.
The main reason to consider resale value is 1-2 years later you may want to upgrade and selling it to another person typically yields you more money than trading it in with Apple. Doing something like this may decrease how much you could sell it for later.
If you’re not planning on doing that then it’s not really a factor for you.
I use a case on my MacBooks to protect them from damage. These cases are made of softer materials that are easier to chamfer. I make a similar modification when necessary. Sometimes it's worse with the plastic cases because the injection mold seam is that sharp edge.
Love that he took it so far. I filed mine a while back - it’s so much more comfortable to use. When I drop it and a corner get mashed, I file that back flat. It reminds me of kintsugi where it shines from the fine filing.
I filed my work dell laptop too. Very different feel, but it is nice not living in feel of your own stuff.
Depending on how I'm using the computer, I may definitely have deep marks after working laying down, but if I sit in a wood chair for a while it's the same thing- and my forearm is much tougher than behind my knee.
I suppose I would prefer it nice and rounded and soft on my wrist - but I don't feel like it's quite as extreme as this thread would have you believe lol
I also hate these sharp edges. After a long working session I have deep grooves in my wrists, and my skin is red with irritation. It's uncomfortable enough that it distracts me from work. It's the very antithesis of good design.
Everyone should be personalizing their belongings to suit their needs and desires. Living with belongings that make you feel anything less than happy and satisfied is NOT necessary.
This is a particularly hilarious customization both for its combined utility and shock value and also for doing it on a work computer.
I wonder if it would be possible to sand down a MacBook surface to the grade where it was all shiny mirror like the Apple logo, e.g. with car polish :-) The "untouchable" MacBook mirror :-)
My first reaction to this was something akin to "what a terrible day to be literate" but the more I think about it, I admire how you're not afraid to change something about YOUR machine, that YOU paid for. Still wouldn't do this myself tho ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The author has the same problem as myself; there’s a permanent imprint on the screen that sits right where the screen makes contact with the topside of the touchpad.
It’s quite an annoying flaw, and i’ve only had this problem with the machines since the M1 redesign
Maybe it's just me, but I think it looks kind of cool. I like how it tapers from the ultra-smooth front to the jagged back edges. Only suggestion would be to use better tools to do the filing, since it looks a bit uneven/rough.
At one point due to the way I was using my just above my wrist my skin basically calloused from the edge of the macbook. Now at least the lid is not that sharp but it used to be I recall and I always worried about kids getting hit by it in case of an accident.
Maybe it's because I type like one would play the piano (with hands curved, fingers well below the palms), but I've never ran into an issue like this with a laptop before, wrists always clear the edges by a couple inches.
There are plenty of laptops out there that have square edges on the user-facing edge. However, most are tapered and/or have hinge designs that tilt the laptop surface towards the user, dropping that square edge away from the user's wrists.
Most Apple laptops, such as the latest Pro's, are level, rather than tapered, and sit flat so that the user-facing edge cuts into your wrists. It's bad ergonomics, plain and simple. If you value function over form enough to modify your tools in this way, choose better tools.
Choosing tools is not easy. Last time I bought a laptop was 2014. My goal was running Linux. My other requirements were, in order of importance, without explanation:
3 physical buttons below the touchpad. That removed really many laptops. They would be nearly zero today, or really zero.
15 inches screen. Common.
Matte finish. Common.
User serviceable hardware. That removed many other laptops.
No number pad. I had to give up on that or I would have no laptop to buy.
I'm very tempted to try this although I worry that the rubber "seal" around the edges of the screen will no longer have anything to butt up against, meaning there's glass-on-metal contact when it's closed?
One of the ATPers was going on and on a bit ago about how the Neo is very "rounded" and "not sharp" compared to the Pro. I wonder if it would need this.
I too find the sharp corners incredibly uncomfortable for my weak sensitive baby wrists but I chose to overcome this by wearing a wrist band. Two very different approaches
On one of my old MacBook Pros, I managed to do this naturally through friction from my wrist moving back and forth on the keyboard for years; good idea to get ahead of it.
The Apple Watch Ultra also has an aggressively sharp screen edge. It's kept me from upgrading from my current watch (Model 8). But maybe I would get use to it?
The side that faces your wrist is rounded - only the face is sharp. I haven't noticed any issues with the edge wearing the thing.
I was worried about scratches because I abuse the shit out of anything I wear, and sure enough, there are scratches in the titanium bezel, but they look good in a way that scratches on my (non-pro) steel Apple Watch did not.
It was oddly satisfying taking a file to my MacBook when a drop lifted a nasty burr on the edge.
Very minor "you can just do things" collides with the "infallible object" presence that Apple wants for its products - almost feels "wrong", but it's a nice norm to break.
Another thing that multiple generation of MacBook Airs used to do is constantly be running (sometimes quite painful) amounts of electricity through your wrists if they accidentally touched the metal.
Not sure if the Apple Silicon devices have the same issue - but it was consistent through at least 3 different generations.
One concern with doing this would be when you pack it in a bag and the screen would now flex more than usual, leading to excessive wear of the anti-reflective coating on these screens.
Since the edge has been filed away, the rubber seal on the screen would no longer presses against the edge of the body protecting the screen.
Sharp edges and an axehead-like profile wear down the bottom of the laptop sleeve in my office-commuter hand luggage. Solved by putting my old MacBook Air in a neoprene pocket case before putting the whole thing, now with the double-thickness :-( p into my sachel.
I first encountered this in-person on a Mac Mini many years ago, which to be fair is not meant to be touched all the time, but it was still slightly repulsive. It has a surprising weight and uncomfortable sensation like picking up a freshly-cut block of metal. Then I realised Apple did the same with their laptops which are meant to be touched. They do have rounded corners, but not on the axes where the roundedness is useful. In contrast, Thinkpads look sharp-edged with square corners but are actually confortable to hold.
Older Thinkpad were made without the sharp edge. I love the edge on the X230 and I've been wondering why no designer has taken a look at these to make new laptop.
It is kind of funny how all the comments are like “yes, finally, file away!” Instead of taking a step back and asking why half the users don’t get these issues at all with the way they lay their hands on the keyboard. I’ve been using metal macbooks for as long as they’ve been around and this is the first I’m hearing of it. Maybe I’m holding it right.
I don't have any trouble with the corner on my MacBooks. But now I'm disappointed that Apple added an extra few grams to my MacBook Air that they could have avoided without damaging functionality.
only the biggest POS tools have bad ergonomics on the industrial side. The real quality tools, the ones meant to be used on the factory floor or in a production line, think of human ergonomics first .
I would probably be considering that as I took a file to my laptop in order to keep it from cutting into my skin as I used it.
I applaud the ingenuity, but I detest the concept of aesthetic-first engineering without a thought for the human user of the thing. Vote with your dollar.
In the case of parent : I admire your ability to cope and the chutzpah it took to take a file to company property.
on a side note : I think it's absolutely fascinating in every Apple thread watching users trade tips on how to avoid electric shock, electrolytic/chemical pitting, and skin cuts like it's just normal computing worries. You folks have some thick skin to keep at it. I would be rubberizing the whole damn thing after the first zap.
I just asked an LLM this exact question; it said "sure, but use cutting fluid, ensure the bit is carbide, slow the router speed down to 10-16k rpm, go slow, and clean off the flutes if they get gummed"
Finally, now I know I'm not the only one! These sharp edges constantly cut into my wrists to the point I was thinking of doing the same, or glueing some kind of kind soft padding to the edges. Great someone did it. I wonder how far can you cut them?
I did something similar with drawer handles. I was living in a place with cheap furniture and the handles were aluminum billet cut to length and tapped so it could be screwed to the drawer face. The edge on either side were crazy sharp. If you bumped it with your knee you'd easily cut the skin.
So I took some 1000 grit sand paper for metal and gently wet sanded the edge. If you rotate it a little you can get a very small radius evenly around the edge and it will keep a nice finish that matches brushed aluminum.
I'd actually feel comfortable doing this to a Macbook having done it to the drawer handles. Just use little pressure, back the paper with something flat, and check your progress often. It takes very little to remove the sharpness to the edge, to the point it's hard to see with the naked eye.
I can't downvote you enough for this comment, but hopefully others will. You're arguing that a device designed for portability is perfect as it is because you're supposed to use external monitors and proper keyboards. This is peak HN/Reddit/"current society", whatever you want to call it.
I'm arguing that using a laptop without dedicated input and display peripherals if you can avoid it is a bit of masochism and filing off the corners won't fix it.
If my work computer were my own I would do this in a second. The MacBook pro is ridiculously uncomfortable, both in terms of geometry and heat. I don't mind when it gets warm but on a cold morning it's just downright unpleasant to get working on it.
I have never understood how Jony Ive is highly regarded as a designer when he put not only sharp, aluminum edges but sharp aluminum corners exactly where your body spends almost all the time for continuous contact with the device.
He honestly seems like a terrible designer, which seems corroborated by him doing nothing of remote interest outside of Apple and barely inside it. The items that are regarded as design epochs, like the iPod, we're not his.
OMFG I am so glad to hear I am not the only one! The stupid thing hurt my wrists on the white Macbook generation so I shaved it off so it wasn't so sharp.
I would remove material from the outside edges of the front, not the center near the trackpad. The blue edges of my M2 air have already become silver and the palm rests have become more silver and glossy like glass from wear. I'm probably going to do something like this.
> I file the sharp corners off my MacBooks. People like to freak out about this
The fact that any conscious human being has the time or energy to be "freaked out" about someone futzing around with their own devices is astounding to me.
Honestly I love these things because they are so sturdy that you can do it. It’s like a slab of metal
I know people hate apple and I get it but like if you sign the pact with the devil you get many benefits from that ecosystem
Besides I can’t imagine going back to windows, I would have to use Linux. It wouldn’t be a tragedy alright but I am at the point where I like less customization and more the readiness and it just works aspect
I never found comfort in the endangered Linux ricing communities either that usually enriches the experience above just OS
I think he filed edges too much that the font on the website is getting thinner. /s
I agree the edges _can_ be sharp, I have chosen to use a thin-plastic cover which also doubles as a sticker-holder. Also helps with the "bumps" and scratches...
> People like to freak out about this, so I wanted to post it here to make sure that everyone who wants to freak out about it gets the opportunity to do so.
I've grown to appreciate unapologetic trolling of people who care way too much about what other people do to themselves or their own private property.
One of my favorite pastimes. There's a facebook group I'm in that has a member that ran over some old plastic part of his car that people pay good money for and the amount of chaos it caused in the group was indescribable. I watch the video anytime I need a good laugh
Was it the protective packaging of Dodge sports cars that people thought looked cool and thus retained?
https://www.hellcat.org/threads/this-is-what-happens-when-th...
The takeaway from this article should be to consider modifying your tools to your needs even in unconventional and controversial ways. I love it.
The flame war on whether the original chassis design sucks or rocks is not that interesting.
25 years ago one of early engineering courses included a case study about Ingersol Rand (IIRC). They went out to work floors and saw how all the workers had modified their air wrenches in the same way, adding padding with tape in various areas. They realized they could probably make a better wrench if it had some of those ergonomics built in.
Maybe the next phase of Apple could return to flowing shapes and save our wrists.
> save our wrists
If your wrist is in contact with the edge of the laptop while you are actively typing, then your typing style has a good chance of giving you RSI. You'd be better off trying to fix that than trying to make the fast path to RSI more convenient.
How the f are you supposed to type? Ideally I'd like full support for my arms from the elbow to the wrist.
In my first job - i think it was in 1997, I had my own small room with an L-shaped desk with a rounded corner. That gave a few inches of space for resting my arms - both when typing on a quite reasonable Pentium laptop, and especially when using the mouse.
Since then, the desks and the chairs has become shittier and shittier. Except perhaps when a was a consultant for an HR-department.
The U-shaped desk was probably the best ergonomically designed workplace I've had. Maybe a wheat-filled pad along the desk would have made it better.
Like a person playing the piano.
If your arms are resting, then your fingers and wrists are doing the maximum amount of reaching as you type. If you use a wrist rest you are encouraging your fingers/wrist to reach up (bend in your wrist) instead of neutral or reaching down (more natural position).
Straight wrists is good, but hovering like a pianist is not good for extended computer use.
A more concrete way of putting it is if you are putting so much weight on your wrists that the edge of the MacBook is making you uncomfortable, you're probably doing it wrong.
If your comments on HN end with "you are probably doing it wrong", you are probably doing empathy wrong.
Steve Jobs back from the dead?
I've heard this but I've personally been typing this way for 25+ years (wrists on the rest, including on laptops exclusively for the last 15), my wrists are fine. Meanwhile people I know with ergonomic keyboards and everything that's supposed to save your wrists are the ones with bad wrists.
Too bad even the ergo desktop keyboards don't handle this properly
Interchangeable wrist area as an accessory for only 79.99$
Interchangeable? No, $250 upgrade, fused with the case at the factory and somehow electronically serialized
One time cost? This should be a subscription that raises spikes when you don't pay
The Apple way for hardware is more to design the thing so it breaks under normal use very quickly, and then refuse to replace it under warranty.
My experience with Apple hardware has been it generally holds up. I've only on my third iPad since I bought the original in 2011. My iPhones have all lasted at least four years.
The screen on my Macbook Air has been the exception. I wonder why they can't just use the same display on those that they do iPad. Seems better quality, as well
Per side.
Note: Left hand wrist areas are currently out of stock.
The right hand wrist area is the best we have ever made though.
When I got into photography, I used to baby my camera equipment a lot. After all, I spent a lot of money I wanted to take care of it.
Later on the topic came up online and someone noted something to the effective of:
“If I saw a group of photographers taking pictures, I bet I could pick out the best photographer just based on how beat up their equipment is.”
I realized based on my own experience, that was probably true.
The idea being use your tools and worry about the output, not how they look.
I’ve made my living as a pro photographer for over 30 years. These days I consider most cameras to be disposable. I also keep any older bodies as hazardous duty remote cameras. Once you get into the mindset it opens a certain amount of creativity.
The number of times I find myself saying to beginning photographers that babying their camera is the surest way to hate photography, whether as a hobby or a profession… I get particularly testy about handwringing about weather sealing or protecting the finish on their kit. Just take the camera places and use it. It’s probably going to be fine. It’s going to get scars. That’s just stories.
I really like the design and the sharp edges don’t hurt my wrists.
I also really like this article and am 100% supportive of people messing around and modifying their stuff.
The funny thing is Apple products are considered “finished products” No one would feel the same way if it was a home built computer.
The modding community is a shadow of its old self these days
That doesn’t seem strange to me, Apple is my “buy it for what’s on the box” brand, stuff that I don’t want to mod. If I want to mess with something I usually use hardware that runs Linux.
This is why I like cheaper tools. Yes, that means cheaper quality but it's far easier to approach taking a dremel to it. And the DIY look usually matches the stock materials better anyway.
Nah, taking the risk is even more fun when the thing you're modifying holds more value.
Chopping the fenders on a Porsche 911 to install a widebody kit does not have the same weight as rolling the seams on an Jeep Cherokee.
All things being equal, sure, but I personally am way more likely to mod the Cherokee than the Porsche
I'd say it's an even split. Half the Jeeps on the road and on the trails are modified. On the road maybe 1/10 of Porches are modified, but on the track 90% are.
Big difference between bolt-ons vs deeper mods too.
Yeah, I think it's pretty funny. And it is good to modify your own tools. In a way that's the whole sentiment of FOSS software.
> The takeaway from this article should be to consider modifying your tools to your needs even in unconventional and controversial ways. I love it.
I get the feeling that might not be the greatest idea in some fields.
For example, anything that could kill you (or others) if it goes wrong. ;)
I used a macbook for almost 2 years and genuinely don't understand how people can tolerate these machines. My wrists would be cut up all the time to the point where I looked like I was self harming myself and the glary screen is entirely unsuable anywhere but a darkest basement. Not to mention the terrible keyboard. To this day I'm perplexed how macbooks have such high desirability by full time developers when they're almost unusable.
I hear people complain about laptop ergonomics all of the time and I don't understand it. I have zero issues with either of my Macbooks. I can go for hours and not be fatigued.
If I have it in my lap, the outer ball of each wrist is resting on the body to the left and right of the trackpad and that means my forearms are angled upwards, away from the edges. They never rest on the edge of the laptop until I use the trackpad, and then the puffy outer pad of my palm is resting on the laptop edge. Still very comfortable.
If I'm using it at a desk it's the same story. My seat is high enough (relative to the desk) that my forearms lift up and away from the laptop. Never resting on the edge.
Are people seated so low so that the desk height is at breast level and they're making T-Rex arms to reach the keyboard? It seems so intuitively obvious to avoid such positions.
You may have smaller hands (no offense meant); imagining my hands in the position you explained, my fingers would be well outside of where they need to be. I have the same issue as OP, the corners dig into my heel/wrist area. I do have big banana hands though.
That sounds like you have your desk too low. You're going to get some major repetitive strain injuries in 10-20 years.
If you have your arms at your sides, elbows should bend 90 degrees. Then just move your arms slightly forward and you'll end up somewhere around 95 degrees. Now you can rest your forearms on the desk. This won't save you from all kinds of RSI, but it might help your wrists, elbows and shoulder joints last a bit longer.
Having the desk low, the chair high, or putting a laptop on your lap is okay. Having the desk or table "high" (i.e. at normal height for writing with a pen or eating a meal) is generally worse but not an insurmountable problem.
In either case, the most important thing is to keep your wrists in as straight and neutral position as possible, with your palms and wrists "floating" rather than resting on anything while actively typing. Having the wrists either flexed downward or extended upward is a really bad idea. Having the wrists turned out to the side isn't great either, but not as bad.
The keyboard should be positioned close enough to your body so that your shoulders can be relaxed with your upper arms hanging loosely. The laptop surface should be roughly parallel to your forearms, so if you have a high desk or table relative to your torso you will need to prop up the far side to tilt it up a bit.
You don’t even need 20 years, I spent the better part of a year in my mid 20s in pain because I was typing with my wrists at an upward angle like GP is describing.
Ergonomics is one of those things where you don't understand it until it effects you. Everyone can tolerate discomfort at some level and at different levels but obviously there best practices that manufacturers can partake in to make hardware more ergonomic.
For example, the monitor should be at eye level vertically but with laptop that's very hard to accomplish unless you position yourself in a reclined fashion to bring down your eye level closer to your lap - on a macbook you get wrist cuts like this.
One of the most important thing that makes a good ergonomic laptop is the ways it accomodates as many positions and setup as posible so your can rotate your working position to avoid excessive strain on one particular area. So when your back is tired you slouch down, when your wrists are tired you straighten up, when your eyes are tired you adjust the display brightness/theme etc.
When taken seriously it's totally possible to work safely even in poor conditions like outside or on a train but devices that completely ignore ergonomics just don't even give you the chance.
> the monitor should be at eye level vertically
This is slightly misleading advice. The ideal place for the display has the top of the display at roughly eye level, or for a very large display maybe slightly above, which puts most of the display below eye level. Humans actually have great ability to look slightly downward for long periods of time while doing stuff with their hands, even while keeping their head held up straight, and indeed our eyes can more comfortably focus on close objects in the lower part of our field of view than straight ahead. What you don't want to do is slouch or bend your neck too much.
A laptop display attached to the keyboard usually isn't an ideal placement, but it's generally not too bad.
Don't allow your head/chin to drift forward.
Welcome to "tech neck" - upper crossed syndrome, from looking slightly down.
You're inviting some surprising symptoms, not just neck and back pain, but things like numbness, tingling, or pain shooting down your arms. Really not fun.
Key posture correction seems to be pulling head back. Some physical therapy exercises can help as well.
https://deukspine.com/blog/tech-neck-forward-head-posture-tr...
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
In trying to picture this, I suppose there are certainly some stock photo models who'd feel the sharp edges:
google.com/images?q=person+using+laptop
I totally know what you mean about shifting positions. All the positions I've been in where I've felt the edges have been quite unergonomic, but perhaps not for everyone.
> I hear people complain about laptop ergonomics all of the time and I don't understand it. I have zero issues with either of my Macbooks.
It's almost like y'all are different people...
There's no way you can cut your wrists on the edge of a MacBook. To do that, you would have to be leaning straight-armed with all of your weight on the edge of the keyboard, which is a typing style that I've never seen. Mac keyboards are some of the best that I've ever used. There's nothing special about the Mac screen one way or the other.
You sound very confident. My M1 mbp’s edges are uncomfortable enough against my wrist/heel (?) area that I use an external keyboard even when on the couch.
Could it slice me open? Probably not without effort. Is it sharp, and sharp enough to cause discomfort? Definitely.
People come in all sorts of different shapes, sizes, and configurations. I don't have any pressure on the sharp edges in my normal day-to-day, and I'm having a little trouble figuring out how I'd contort myself to change that, so that particular issue is fine.
The glare is annoying. I would like to work outside more often.
Mind you, I don't really like the poor isolation and floating ground causing a tingling sensation when you touch it while charging, the lid hinge doesn't quite have enough internal resistance, the keys get stuck way too easily, etc. The sharp-corners build defect is fine for me though.
Yes, the electrical shocks are very annoying! I don't know if it's related to an older/failing battery but I've certainly noticed this on an old Macbook Pro. Thanks for mentioning this - I guess at 24VDC it isn't a regulatory issue but it really does feel like a small insect sting or something and it's irritating.
My newer Air doesn't seem to have this problem. Also the screen is brighter, together with a mat finish it is better for using outside.
Why is floating ground still a thing? I've found it can actually sting quite a bit if you are grounded or touch something that is.
I’m really flummoxed at why the MacBooks continue to be spicy. When using then laptop with a charger using the grounded cable on the socket side there used to be no spice. Now that adapters are mostly only used with two prong connectors the spicyness is ubiquitous.
I recall audio equipment also not being grounded because the industry prefers not being grounded over being accidentally grounded to two different grounds causing voltage transients. Maybe the same reason now also applies to MacBooks? Or does someone know another reason why the outer shell of a MacBook is still spicy.
> Now that adapters are mostly only used with two prong connectors the spicyness is ubiquitous
One can still obtain the 3-prong pigtail instead of the little 2-prong inline plug, and that one grounds correctly.
Unfortunately they only seem to make a 3-prong inline version in about 3 countries.
same. i thought it was me, but every mbp has been spicy and leaks current like crazy.
Jony Ive.
He wanted a razor blade made out of pure aluminum that had no function at all but stood as a testament to his design aesthetic.
As others have mentioned: battery, build quality, Linux-ish ecosystem. If I could get all three in another laptop I would go for it, but nothing comes close at the moment. There was a very brief moment in time where the XPS came close, and then the M series rolled out and eradicated the competition on performance + battery life.
Laptops are unergonomic by default, no matter how you position them, either the screen is too low or the keyboard is too high. I think most developers just use them docked with an external monitor and keyboard most of the time (I certainly do).
it's not a binary equation. My thinkpad is plenty ergonomic for a full work day on the road. Sure the monitor position is suboptimal but keyboard is brilliant, no sharp edges, no screen glare and there's a trackpoint. It's no home setup obviously but at least I don't actively suffer when I do need to use a portable computer for it's primary purpose.
On the other hand, placing your laptop on your belly when lying down on a couch is peak computing ergonomics.
I have also been using Macbooks for around 10 years, Airs and Pros, and usually my wrists are on the flat part, when docked I used a keyboard.
Keyboard on Macs is pretty much good, other than the early butterfly version, rest is definitely above average and it just feels good. Glare is a problem, but darkest basement is an overstatement.
It might not fit your workflow or you might be expecting super niche, but it is the worlds most popular laptop for both regular users and developers for a reason. Input devices and screen are significant part of the Macbook appeal, so definitely not almost unusable.
This is just me but I like short travel keyboards. Long travel “mechanical” switches set off the RSI in one of my wrists.
I don’t care about the sharp edges because 1) they’re not actually that sharp. 2) I don’t rest my wrists on them.
I mostly work from a desk with an external monitor and the laptop cantered below it. I avoid mice and try to use keyboard shortcuts.
I’ve used Dells, HPs and Thinkpads and the current MacBook Pros are still my favourite design.
Horses for courses, I guess.
This is why I prefer tactile (not clicky) mechanical keyboards to linear mechanical or "mushy" non-mechanical desktop keyboards: they're easy to reliably trigger without full travel.
I also like the short-travel Apple keyboards, though, and if Apple made a tenkeyless Magic Keyboard with the standard layout for cursor movement keys, I'd probably be using it.
I don't like the sharp corners either and I fully support the modifications in the article, but to be completely fair to the design, if your wrists are digging into the corners you're at the wrong angle. If you're habitually typing with bent wrists you're going to have problems. The "butterfly" keyboard was also (famously) terrible, but the newer ones, especially with the proper inverted-T cursor keys, are fine (for a laptop) imho. My ideal laptop keyboard would be split and orthogonal, but that's far too weird to make it anywhere close to mass production.
oh fr. macs are garbage dev machines. display gives me headaches. keyboard is terrible, it hurts. speakers are the best part.
the lock screen doesnt show battery charge level. dead battery? mac wont start for 15 min on connecting power... still need half ass homebrew
> dead battery? mac wont start for 15 min on connecting power
Having just received an M4 in the mail with a completely flat battery, I can confirm this is nearer 10 seconds on Apple silicon (you are correct it used to be this way on Intel Macs)
Having an M1 and an M2, no it isn't. Takes at least 5 minutes on the 65W charger to get bootable from a full drain. Maybe something changed with the newer models but it isn't a benefit across all Apple Silicon.
Have never tried the 65W charger, but have had no issues booting from fully discharged with the 96W brick
Oh yeah I hate those sharp edges on MacBooks. The old pre-unibody macbooks were great but I can't stand anything that came after it. Always had red lines on my wrists. These days I'm completely off Mac luckily.
And yes the keyboards are terrible too. Up to 2015 it was OK but I can't work with the butterfly ones and the "new and improved" scissor ones that came after that. They still have a lot less travel than the ones from up to 2015.
I never sanded my metal macbooks though I did do so with a plastic one I had. I just didn't really use them much as laptop anymore.
I had one of those pre-unibody white plastic Macbooks. I hated the sharp edge on the front. With the later models it was less of an issue somehow.
Like Mr Jobs said, “You’re holding it wrong.”
The build quality and least-nonsense OS is why I like it. Huge caveat though, I keep it plugged into a KVM setup so I don't actually use it directly, but I do keep it open on the side of my desk for meetings.
It's been a problem for a decade (or more?) but, for me, it's not just the sharp edge, it's also the angle of the keyboard.
My Dell XPS is almost as sharp (there's a microscopic chamfer, which won't be enough to explain the difference), but because the body is wedge-shaped, the keyboard sits at a slight angle which makes it feel so much better to me. Propping the back of the Macbook on something helps - only needs to be 2-3mm to make a difference.
It's like the static electricity issues that plagued them in the 2010s. They produced shocks that were actually painful, the sort that I've only experienced before from CRT screens in metal housings. The chargers contained a grounding pin internally, but it wasn't actually connected to anything. Utter madness, and would have been such an easy thing to fix - but it persisted until they replaced the charging port with usb-c.
a positively angled keyboard is actually less ergonomic (at least for most people), and a holdover from typewriters.
> The chargers contained a grounding pin internally, but it wasn't actually connected to anything. Utter madness
That is standard procedure in consumer electronics actually.
My work MBP is charged via external display and sure enough, I get zapped every now and then. The bundled charger also has just two pins.
Every single time I get up and then sit back down, I have to brace myself for electrical impact. Maybe it's the universe telling me to stop working (or stop taking breaks... hmm).
I have a plastic case which helps with the bottom, and when I'm at an angle where my wrist rests against the edge, I have a wrist brace thing that takes the edge off (literally).
I switched as a long time Linux user to a MacBook because of the hardware:
- Battery: no other laptop comes even close
- Trackpad: I don't use a mouse anymore, no other laptop comes close
- Audio: No other laptop comes close
"Sharp edges" really don't bother me to be honest, I wouldn't have noticed it if nobody told me.
I have a nano-texture screen, and it works great in daylight.
Just goes to show how opinions can differ.
> Trackpad: I don't use a mouse anymore, no other laptop comes close
I always hear this but don't get it. Every time I use a Mac laptop, I hate the touchpad. Maybe it's the defaults but I don't feel it's more accurate or anything... Why do people think it's good? A certain acceleration profile?
I much prefer the commodity Synaptics trackpads I've had on my last 2 laptops, running Linux with Gnome and now Hyprland. I just crank the sensitivity, have all the gestures enabled, tap to click and 2 finger reverse scrolling and am happy.
My only complaint is with the EN-international keyboard my company prefers - there is no way to reverse the tilde key position back to the same place next to 1 on the US keyboard. The OS knows what keyboard the laptop has and refuses to change it.
I've created my own keyboard layout plus do some key remapping on my mac. Are you sure this won't work for tilde?
The tilde key exists in the key map here: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/technotes/tn2450...
You can see how I did mine here if you're interested: https://github.com/bruse/dotfiles/tree/main/macOS (I suspect com.local.KeyRemapping.plist is most interesting, but the key layout file is there too, with some comments on how it was generated).
Thank you. I'll check as soon as I can. I remember having asked that in the Ask Different Stack Exchange forum, but I couldn't even find my question.
I remember multiple reviews of other laptops that indeed came close in all of those categories. So those statements are objectively wrong.
Problem is that I dont remember which, and if I remembered the model might very well not be in stock anymore. The other vendors with their always changing lineup of models make that impossible by choice.
But the above criteria are mostly subjective, so objectivity largely doesn’t apply.
The HP ZBook G1a comes close in computing power, screen, sound and trackpad quality - but not at all in battery life: about 7 hours. It's also pretty overpriced, but discounts are common.
"comes close" in itself is a very relative concept. So how can you claim my statements are "objectively wrong"?. Depends on how close "close" is, right.
If you can provide me an example of a laptop that beats one of those categories, it's objectively wrong. In all other cases, nope.
I am with you. But we are somehow a minority. Cannot decide weather we are oddballs or people just love to drink the Kool aid that much.
macbooks are mostly social media consumption machines anyways
Do you also have glass bones and paper skin?
No? The Mac current chassis has objective problems, you can feel the laptop grounding to your body when you touch it with any bare skin.
I just did this to my MacBook not because of the sharp edge but because the pitting turns a sharp edge into a sawblade. Something about the grounding on on the frame when plugged in mixed with my sweaty hands leads to damage along this sharp edge on every MacBook I've ever owned.
See https://www.reddit.com/r/macbook/s/hbyVh5SJhw for another poor soul with the same caustic skin
Oh is that why it happens? Was wondering why the spot directly under my wrist was pitted into a sawblade. I also filed it, though just enough to remove the pitting, nothing like the OP did.
It's easy for me to feel the mains frequency while gently rubbing the top surface of the MacBook while it's plugged in. Really feels unsafe, but neither me nor the computer have suffered any serious injuries yet.
Really feels unsafe, but neither me nor the computer have suffered any serious injuries yet.
That's due to interference suppression capacitor in the PSU. The safety standard puts the "touch current" limit at something like 300uA (0.3mA), which is definitely in "painful but not dangerous" territory. You do need to exercise caution when plugging in other devices that are also connected to the mains, since that amount of current and voltage can certainly damage sensitive electronics.
Old but good page on such measurements: http://www.aplomb.nl/SMPS_leakage/Doc_ie.html
I have super dry skin and I also feel that weird ac effect when lightly touching and moving along the surface of pretty much any aluminum mac device since they started making them aluminum.
And almost no other device I've ever used. My aluminum Framework does not do it. My wifes magnesium LG Gram does not do it.
I have felt it on other things but only extremely rarely. It's bizarre that whatever it is they're doing different, it's probably wrong, and they've kept doing it in every device for decades.
To describe the effect in more detail for anyone who doesn't already know: It's like the case is alternately grabbing and releasing your skin at 60hz.
It's a bit like chatter, ie the periodic friction you use to ring a wine glass by wetting the rim and then running your finger along it. It rings because the combination of the friction, the lack of friction from hydroplaning, and the rubbery give of your skin, makes your skin alternately grab and release 30,000 times a second. Only in this case you are only barely touching the case not pressing enough to make any friction or make a squeal noise. It's like static electric charge attraction. Just touching the case you feel nothing, but move your finger along the surface and you feel it vibrate your finger without any friction to explain it.
It's unsettling and displeasing, which are strange words to expect from an apple device at least when you are only talking about the design and not the tech stack or corporate behavior. It makes me think of cheap electronics from a country with no consumer safety regulations that will probably burn down every 3rd house they wind up in.
It's probably harmless, but then again a lot of things that are harmless in short infrequent doses turn out to have been harmful after you did it for 10 hours a day for 20 years.
> It's easy for me to feel the mains frequency while gently rubbing the top surface of the MacBook
I haven't been a regular Mac user, but I've had maybe 3 work MacBooks since 2010 and I recall having this issue with all of them.
Why haven't they fixed it?
They can’t, it’s caused by the capacitors required to suppress electromagnetic interference caused by the switch-mode power supply. These allow a very very tiny amount of current to leak through from the mains side, which is then capacitively coupled to the metal case (IIRC Apple do not connect the case to power negative) reducing it further, but it’s enough for humans to sense it.
It can be avoided by using a grounded power supply, but because there are large countries that have ungrounded outlets in common use the most designs are ungrounded.
Why do only Macbooks suffer from this problem? When I had a work-issued Macbook I charged it and my personal Framework off the same USB-C charger and I only every felt the leaking current from the Macbook
It's not only mac's suffering from this problem. My old dell latitude with magnesium case had the same thing. I didn't fully understand why and some people thought I was mad for feeling it but it was there.
Only Apple is insane enough to make actual laptop chassis with unpainted anodized aluminum. Others either do it in plastics and/or painted metal. And paints are kind of liquid plastics.
Additional question: why do only some people notice?
It’ll depend on how well grounded you are compared to how well grounded the laptop is, where it’s touching your body, and your sensitivity to electricity which varies.
My aluminium body Lenovo IdeaPad has exactly the same problem.
Thank you for explaining this! I've been feeling this on my girlfriend's macbook for years and I've always wondered what the hell that was. :D
Definitely been a long standing issue on many laptops with exposed metal parts. Late 90’s, if I used my brother’s Compaq while putting my feet up on the radiator, the metal speaker grills would give me mild shocks.
I once had an HP with an aluminum case and it had a grounded power supply but if you plugged it in without grounding his an adapter (sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do). You could feel it straight up vibrate while conducting current if you rubbed your hand over it. Not enough to shock me but it felt like kind of a shoddy design and leaked a lot more current than I've felt on a MacBook.
Is that what it is! On my pre-unibody MBP I used to run my finger across the body sometimes and it had this weird wavy feeling (honestly can't describe it well). I thought it was just a quirk of the aluminium itself!
You can fix it by switching to one of the grounded charger heads. Unfortunately in most locales those are only available with an integrated extension cable (or as everyone seems to call them, the "gooseneck" cables)
It happens with other 2-pin chargers on both MacBooks and other laptops, but it depends upon various factors how strong the leakage is
It's also an issue on the new Neo. It was the first thing I noticed when I tried one in the Apple Store. I unplugged the power cable and it went away, replugged and it came back. I'm in the UK so I expected grounded electricity supply.
If you buy the UK 1.8-metre Power Adapter Extension Cable, this has a metal ground pin that grounds through the metal clip on the power brick. I switched all my MacBook & iPad chargers to this, no more earth leakage sensation from metal casing.
Disappointing. I understood Neo doesn't come with a power plug in UK; was yours the official one?
You wouldn't have this if your plug was properly grounded. Most developed countries have plugs that have grounding. EU via side pins UK via third prong
My experiences are all from third-prong countries.
To add to this, I notice this more frequently in the UK and EU countries than in some other parts of the world (although it varies within each country quite a bit).
Apple avoids shipping grounded plugs as if it was personal affront to Ive. Also caused many many times for me to be shocked with electrostatic build-up.
all my EU/UK macbook plugs I got from apple are always grounded, metal prong and metal side pins
so what I mean is maybe house electricity grid is not grounded.
UK plugs are always grounded because there is no ungrounded version.
But elsewhere you only get grounded plug if you buy extra extension cord for the apple power brick, otherwise it's only ungrounded.
> all my EU/UK macbook plugs I got from apple are always grounded, metal prong and metal side pins
The short version, where you remove the extension with the 3-prong plug and attach the plug directly to the charger brick, is only available in 2-prong in the EU/US (the UK thankfully still gets all 3 prongs in this configuration)
yes true the short one has no grounding.
Anyway as I replied to the other guy (and got downvoted for it) if the plug was grounded there would be no issue. Apple chargers have ground pins.
But sure it's bad if they stopped including grounded versions by default in EU...
Finally. Someone else has mentioned this, I thought it was just me who I experiences the sensation of there being stray current on MacBook frames.
Using a 3 prong extension cable on the charger will prevent this.
How? The (US) charger's only got 2 pins so ground stays unconnected.
There are grounded duckheads for this purpose, e.g. https://amzn.to/4cnzuef (note out of stock. I guess your best bet is to use a UK duckhead, but half of those have a dummy ground...)
if you take the plug part from the brick you'll note that there's only two pins but the button-like thing is a ground
as noted in a sibling, the power adapter extension cable does plumb the ground through (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mw2n3ll/a/power-adapter-e...)
Got a bunch of cheap ones from Ali Express and they worked fine.
Apple sells a 3-pin extension cable
US Version: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mw2n3ll/a/power-adapter-e...
I don't know if this link will work - https://www.chargerlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/202206... but that metal round pin thing is a ground; and the three-prong cable connects to it.
The extension cable they used to include in box with the computers, it has the third pin for the charger brick connector which is wired to ground
There's zero chance that the DC ground in the laptop is tied to earth ground in the charger: they use LLC resonant converters and flyback converters (depending on vintage) - an earth ground tie would defeat the purpose of these isolated topologies.
No they isolate L and N not PE.
However it’s wired up the fact is the electric buzzing feeling goes away if you use a grounded extension cable instead of two pin.
That cuts it by about 90%. But as others have said, the default US plug doesn't ship with a ground pin (though the extended cord does IIRC).
No way, that's why it's "fixed" sometimes, thanks
Maybe you're holding it wrong? j/k
Seriously though, that does not sound safe at all.
This comment is concerning.
> acidic sweat. once you got through the anodization the raw aluminum wears faster....
If one files off the sharp edges, won’t the sweat eat through everything faster, as that protective layer was filed off.
Probably. But, the time when the laptop is taped off would be uniquely a good time to hit it with some polyurethane or something clear to protect it from that sort of damage? Just make sure you hit it with compressed air first so you aren't gluing the aluminum dust to the chassis?
Aluminum should oxidize essentially instantly.
Anodizing and oxidation are 2 totally different things.
anodizing is literally oxidizing
True; however, this is an aluminium alloy. These typically have lower corrosion resistance and are most commonly anodized because of it. The applied layer is typically 3 to 5x thicker than that formed by pure aluminium oxidization.
Huh, I've had that pitting with every magic mouse I've owned, the sides of it end up looking like a cheese grater...apparently my fingers are acidic!
Have you ever had that looked into it maybe just ask AI? That does not seem healthy.
It’s extremely common and nothing to worry about. As a brass instrument player, I sometimes come across someone whose instruments always deteriorate at 300% of the rate of others. Laquer peels, silver plating blackens, etc.
I’ve been traveling around the world. It is 50 / 50 of the socket is properly grounded —-anywhere in the world. I get a tingling zap on the wrist when not properly grounded. The charger also gets hot and sparks.
but it's never going to be grounded, there isn't even a ground pin on the charger
Apple sells a 3-pin extension cable
US Version: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mw2n3ll/a/power-adapter-e...
Yeah they sell the 3-pong extension for various countries. I am currently using the Indian version of it.
If you swap in the extension cable head, that does indeed have a ground pin, at least in Australia anyway. The grounding comes from that metal ring that the connector uses as a guide. https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/mw2n3x/a/power-adapter...
only two prongs of which make it through. Usually the regulation as I understand is that it's fine if you can prove the case can never get in contact with anything electric, for most laptops that's just being made of plastic.
As has been established in other threads here, the metal button thing the prongs slide onto is an earth connection.
> only two prongs of which make it through
The big recess above the pins is what encases the button of the charger and provides grounding if it includes metal strips. Assuming the charger itself has a metal button.
In the EU a grounded cable has been the default forever (I have a grounded cable from my 2010 MBP which I use as travel cable for my 2021 MBP)
>The charger also gets hot and sparks.
Some heat is normal, but the sparking seems concerning.
That should not happen with a well designed power supply. It sounds like Apple cut some corners "for design reasons", or some shortcut to make it cheaper to manufacture.
I’ve noticed that this only occurs when I use a two-prong adapter for the power brick.
If I use the 3-prong, which is usually tied to a long cable, I don’t feel the buzz.
I assumed that the additional grounding helped.
So glad to know it wasn’t just me with sweaty hands and pitted aluminum that is razor sharp!
Oh wow I think I have a mild version of this.
Can it cause the plastic on the mouse to break down?
Yes, it is fairly common with some plastics. better plastics won't but there are a lot of different plastics with differt formulas (and many can be mixed)
You need to moisturize more.
Holy moly, that guy in the reddit post needs to see a dermatologist asap and figure out why their skin is emitting acid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle
It is within the range of physiology. Nobody has pH-neutral skin, and aluminium is reactive.
Thanks for this interesting post - I've been showing it to co-workers to get their reactions, which was incredibly entertaining for me!
Co-worker 1: Interesting. I wonder if that voids the warranty. It's Apple you know.
Co-worker 2: May Jobs have mercy on their soul...
Co-worker 3: Not a bad idea. But not sure if that would cause problems with structural integrity of the laptop, like if you drop it or something.
Co-worker 4: The only downside I see is that you can no longer say "Hey, that's a sharp-looking laptop!"
Co-worker 4 is the one I want to have a beer with.
i’ll take 3. we can be boring together
I strongly suspect 3 is correct - removing material from the corners might weaken the structure.
I would use a CNC machine to round them more precisely and uniformly though.
Haha I was thinking the same when I read he hand filed it
As it is with any box, there is only so much material you can remove from the corners before it disintegrates into disconnected surfaces.
I have just the opposite reaction.
Steer clear from co-worker 1..
I'd be looking for another job altogether.
Really? Co-worker 4 is just repeating a pun. Using "sharpe" to mix the meanings of "good looking" and "literally sharpe" is a well known joke. Almost a dad-joke, a joke that's been done so many times that everyone recognizes when it's there to be done, but the person who actually does it out loud will annoy people with their predictability.
1 and 3 are way more creative.
It's a work laptop - I'm surprised none of the coworkers said "you'll get in trouble when you return it".
I don't know WHY... But corporate bureaucracies have logic of their own.
Well, it's property of his workplace, and they're usually resold when the employee gets a new one. And it's not exactly mint any more, is it.
> they're usually resold when the employee gets a new one
Are they? Everywhere I've worked they get shoved into a storage closet and ignored for another 5-7 years
It's pretty common if you have IT and finance teams that are paying attention. Sure a lot of shops let them waste away on a shelf, but that's what it is, waste. If you have fungible inventory that isn't likely to get used soon it is just a mistake it let it sit around unutilized. If it is cash, it is easier to utilize on other projects.
Ours are on lease, but the leasing company will release some from time to time for auctions at $DAYJOB. I've won 2. Using one, son flipped the other one for a couple hundred dollar profit.
Every laptop I've ever purchased was corporate surplus
Apple has a buyback program for corporations.
Idk if it's common anymore, but some companies rent equipment rather than purchase it. So they'd have to return everything back to the rental company, who is expecting normal wear and tear, not intentional "customization."
I’d suggest if you are going to do this to your MacBooks to get the silver one. The silver one is actually aluminum and no one would notice.
I’d actually be interested to see it on a black one. It might look like “brassing” on an old, well used camera.
Whilst I like that it increases the “tooliness” of the Mac it’s not of me I think.
I like mine pristine. ”There are many like it but this one is mine”, yada, yada.
“Many like it there are. Mine this one is”, Yoda, Yoda.
Worn anodizing on aluminium doesn't look anywhere as good as brass under lacquer.
They’re all actually aluminum, anodized to the color you choose. The silver one is the only one not anodized.
Filing off the anodized layer is indeed bound to look awful.
Not to well actually your well actually but they’re all anodized to prevent corrosion and scratches (the oxide layer is harder than the underlying aluminum) - the silver one is just undyed.
And in the pictures you can see a clear color difference between the anodized silver body and the exposed aluminum. It's subtle from a distance, but if you zoom in a bit its pretty obvious
That difference will fade with time.
The pictures were taken months later, so some fading already happened
Well actually, your not well actually to the well actually was actually a well actually of the well actually. Just sayin’.
What tools are needed to redo the anodized color? Is it doable at home?
You have to grind off the existing Al2O3 protective layer using sandpapers/sandblasters and/or power tools, then ultrasound + acetone wash the parts, then dump it into an acid bath while running electrical current through the pieces. Special dyes can be added for color. Then the pieces are boiled in regular water to further improve durability. The combination of the acid and electricity then boiling cause Al to form beehive shaped surface micropores, and dyes - actually inorganic, so pigments - gets electrically jammed into the pores. The whole outer surface become thick insulating layer of highly chemically resistant and mechanically rigid white/transparent Al2O3 once the process is complete. Voltage, current, waveform, temperature, solution acidity, etc etc affect colors and oxide thickness and shapes and sizes therefore aesthetics as well as durability. "Anodization" refers to this process of electro-acidic-heat formation of the oxide layer, not the coloring. The coloring powder is an extra.
Technically it can be done in a garage, but spot and/or intact application might be difficult. Strict color matching against Apple made things would be impossible.
How comfortable are you working with chromic acid and boric-sulfuric acid in your home?
As long as it's not hydrofluoric acid...
I bought a light HF acid (rust remover) so I can properly clean titanium parts before anodizing. Worked like a charm...
just don't let any of it get on your skin. only takes a splash to land you in intensive care.
Yes it’s doable at home, even with fairly primitive tools. You need several chemicals and (if you wish) colored dye.
Anodizing works as follows:
1. Take the MacBook apart
2. Clean it
3. Chemical bath to remove old anodized layer
4. Clean it again
5. Chemical bath with power supply attached. applied voltage+current and duration will determine hardness and thickness of the anodized layer.
6. Clean it
7. Dye it.
8. Seal the dye in a hot water bath.
It’s fairly straight forward to do.
This made me smile because in my book this is at every effect impossible, especially if the goal is getting a functioning laptop at the end of the process. To be clear, it's impossible for me because I lack the knowledge, expertise and tooling to even think about doing it.
Nonsense, it just makes it more effort for you - nothing is impossible.
Also, the way you acquire the knowledge, expertise and tooling is by screwing around with stuff where you have no idea what you’re doing.
Depending on the field you want to gain knowledge it can mean: “famous last words” or “missing body parts”. Nothing against the spirit of learning and challenge one’s skills. But especially people on YouTube show of quite dangerous things and sell them as everybody can do it. My list here: Metal / Wood work on a lathe with off center or unbalanced pieces in a 3 jaw chuck.
Playing around with lithium batteries to build bigger battery packs (DYI Perks did this and even though he mentions the dangers of doing that (fire or electric shock) it’s still inspires people to do the same in their living rooms.
Then is playing with chemicals.
Again I’m not saying don’t do it. But one should ease into things not just grab a random set of chemicals and disassemble a laptop and hook up a power supply etc by just following a list from the internet.
13 year old me who anodised remote control car chassis completely agrees the process is quite simple.
In the context of a MacBook, it’s not. Removing just the aluminium components and leaving everything that doesn’t like baths undamaged is practically impossible for amateurs. I’m not sure it’s something many professionals would take on.
I think it could be possible for the bottom half. The lid would be way, way trickier (unless you have one with a broken screen already and know how to put the new one together).
I’m wondering what custom colours you could do with that process btw!
Practically anything! Vibrant colours work best, and there are techniques to do transitions, fades, and masking to get multiple colours, though I’ve never done those myself.
Not strictly DIY because a professional anodizing workshop did the actual anodizing, but cool results nevertheless:
https://lowendmac.com/2024/ryan-andersons-colorized-anodized...
> 1. Take the MacBook apart
Otherwise known as "remove everything from the chassis, leaving only the chassis."
But do so in a way that lets you fully re-assemble it later on, after you've finished the re-anodising.
> 7. Dye it.
Why the dye? I thought anodising's colour comes only from the voltage used, with no dye needed.
ie you can pick the colour you want, but you need to get the voltage correct for that colour
> Why the dye? I thought anodising's colour comes only from the voltage used, with no dye needed.
That's true for anodization processes for some other metals like titanium and stainless steel, but aluminum is dyed. Also the process is material specific. Anodization for Al is only possible because Al does that unique self organizing micropore thing.
Yep, you're right. I was thinking of titanium. :)
If anyone's interested in details of Aluminium anodising, this seems like a decently thorough introduction: https://nzic.org.nz/unsecure_files/book/8E.pdf
No, that's steel, and not with voltage, but with temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_coloring_of_metals. For aluminium, you add dye to third bath.
Reversing step 1 will be the real tricky part.
To echo the sibling comment: approximately not, it's a strong acid bath which precludes operating electronics in it, and it's electrochemistry.
People do home anodizing all the time, but colored home anodizing on electronics is very rare.
The way to do it would be wrapping it in, say, a wet paper towel with your strong acid solution (but not sulfuric, because that would turn the paper into pure carbon foam) and running outside current from the laptop through the paper to a cathode, or vice versa.
Wouldn't you want to completely disassemble the laptop first anyway, at which point the electronics would be disconnected from the metal parts anyway?
You really can't fully disassemble current macbooks and put them back together without major tooling - the chassis is not just a wrapper, it's structural to the way they're interconnected, lots of glue and things like that.
Sounds almost like a turtle's exoskeleton
It's nice your co-workers are being blunt with you.
It seems he has a well-rounded selection of coworkers.
> The only downside I see is that you can no longer say "Hey, that's a sharp-looking laptop!"
When this line of MacBooks first came out in 2021 and I bought one (I desperately needed an upgrade), I was joking that it's top-notch hardware.
The slight groove that was there on the middle of the base which allowed you to stick your finger to open the top had sharp corners that poked my wrists and i filed them both off on the first, and only, macbook I used in 2014 or so m
I am actually encouraged to try this now. Gotta check if they allow it. Sharp edges are really annoying on this machine.
Luckily I use it like a desktop 95percent of the time.
Here’s one: scratches are officially not an argument anymore for a price discount on a second hand Mac.
Drop them like it’s hot!
Now I gotta hear these four coworkers' opinions on other things
I love the line “People like to freak out about this, so I wanted to post it here to make sure that everyone who wants to freak out about it gets the opportunity to do so.”
All of the reactions are valid, including the 2nd one if that's a sarcasm.
I think the main problem is that you lose the surface anodization and might end up with a more frail surface there (surface, the structural integrity is going to suffer but not much I guess)
C1: Homo-economicus
C2: Homo-religious
C3: Homo-enginerus
C4: Homo-bros
C4 homo fraternicus?
There is some material loas but wouldn't rounded corners be way stronger on impact than sharp corners?
I have literally cut my finger with a sharp edge of one of my Apple laptops. Like a paper cut. Filing the edges down is the right way to do it. However - for that price it should've be done by Apple at their factory.
I dont believe this at all
The edges of the air intake slits are much sharper.
Also the two corner points next to the air slits underneath the screen when folded open. When I wipe away dust there it can feel slightly uncomfortable.
The pci extension slot edges in most PC cases or the IO are way sharper. I’ve cut myself regularly on those when I was a little kid tweaking cases.
I was pulling mine to the bed from it being vertical against my bedside table along the intake slit. I didn't have a good enough old and it slipped through my finger/thumb and the slit edge raised a well and proper blood blister in my thumb.
i dont believe you
Not all heroes wear capes. This is excellent and can't wait to get aluminium mac next to try it – don't think Space Black is a good way to go.
Author's another post on "The Seasons are Wrong" [0] is excellent too and I fully support both approaches.
[0] https://kentwalters.com/posts/seasons/
The seasons idea is interesting -- to me, both proposals feel wrong. I think it's because the weather changes that I perceive seem to lag behind the changes to daylight length by a few weeks.
I would propose boundaries that align partly with how I perceive the weather, and partly with how we plan our year (by months): Summer starts June 1st, Fall starts September 1st, Winter starts December 1st, and Spring starts March 1st.
Ocean currents, elevation and distance from the equator also have a big impact on what the season is going to feel like.
There's no need to change the dates. They're already arbitrary based on the position of the sun and the earth and people have the experience to take them with the grain of salt necessary to the region they live in. People who live near the equator probably don't have much care for the notion of the winter at all. Folks who live far up north know that spring actually comes in much later than march 21st. People who climb glaciated mountains in the canadian rockies know they won't get summer conditions until late june.
> People who live near the equator probably don't have much care for the notion of the winter at all.
My understanding is that tropical regions tend to divide the year into "wet season" and "dry season".
That's how it works in Australia, though rotated six months: Summer starts December 1, Autumn starts March 1, Winter starts June 1, and Spring starts September 1. I think it even has legal status. In the North of the country though they typically just use wet and dry season.
I've also always thought that the equinoxes and solstices should be the middle of the seasons, so using the 'cross-quarter' days as the beginning of seasons makes more sense.
Forcing seasons into chunks of equal duration also feels wrong, to me but also anyone I recall having a conversation with so seeing every HN comment assuming all seasons are 3 months long is somewhat perplexing.
In my country the dates you stated are what are considered the start of the seasons. This year there was a very clear change between winter and spring on March 1st. February was cloudy and minus, March was sunny and plus.
funny how this is actually the default for me having grown up in Ukraine.
probably same for other post-soviet countries too?
I second this proposal. Three weeks shift can feel about right.
But we lost a lot of nice symmetries that way, which is unfortunate
Sunrise and sunset don't shift at the same time, and December 1 is right about where sunset approaches it's earliest time (where I am it's 4:19, vs the earliest at 4:18 on Dec 8)
Summer doesn't work with that association though, with the latest sunset being the end of June instead of the start.
> I would propose boundaries that align partly with how I perceive the weather, and partly with how we plan our year (by months): Summer starts June 1st, Fall starts September 1st, Winter starts December 1st, and Spring starts March 1st.
You do realize there's also a southern hemisphere on planet Earth?
Oh, I have never heard of seasons starting mid-month. My mind is blown!
In Australia it's just split up by months, with each season being 3 months long:
March 1 - Autumn starts June 1 - Winter starts Sept 1 - Spring starts Dec 1 - Summer starts
Of cause, those in far northern Australia, only really have Dry and Wet seasons. I have no idea when those are.
We were taught the same (Australian) - though it always felt slightly off as March often has major heatwaves, and December can be quite spring-like, often cool and wet.
Adelaide’s climate anecdotally feels to be more humid in recent years (historically bone dry Mediterranean climate) and the seasons feel like they’ve shifted a few weeks forward.
The Kaurna (Australian Aboriginal people of Adelaide, pronounced Gar-nuh) apparently mapped seasons a little differently, with a longer summer that resonates with my experience:
https://www.bom.gov.au/resources/indigenous-weather-knowledg...
The Noongar people of Western Australia have a 6 season model that also maps pretty well to my experience in South Australia.
https://australiassouthwest.com/six-seasons-of-the-south-wes...
Part of the reason for this is that climate lags behind sunlight a bit, so the end of the authors "summer" would be warmer than the beginning.
But most countries other than the USA use meteorological definitions of the seasons starting on the 1st of December, March, June, and September.
Great post. Also, we celebrate "midsummer" on the summer solstice in Sweden and other countries. I see the author noted that.
It's funny, because back home by the Great Lakes, the solstice system aligns better with the seasons than his system. Peak "cold" is usually in January or early February, and you'll generally get one straggler snowfall sometime in March. Peak "hot" is sometime in July or August, with June being when the temperature noticeably goes from "springy" to "summery."
Yes, the black will wind up 2-tone when you get through the top layer. Mine get silvery to the sides of my trackpad from hand friction over time. I like the laptop in black, but silver ages far better.
There's a significant lag between the longer days and the resulting higher temperatures though, which does make the seasons make more sense temperature-wise.
Does Europe and America really call the summer solstice the “start” of summer. Wow.
In India our summer holidays start at the end of March and finish in the start of June. That’s usually our hottest months too. And a lot of our regional “New Year” calendar’s and related festivals are on April 14th and can probably be considered the start of summer.
Hottest day of the year in the US varies by 3 months from California to Texas, which is only about half the width of the country. I would imagine the region you're in has a different hottest day of the year from say Kashmir or your neighbor Sri Lanka.
The three months difference must be based on a wild corner case. What cities are you basing that statement on?
I played around with weatherspark and all the places I tried looked like this :
https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1705~8813/Comparison-of-t...
I don't know whether to call it a corner case or not, but I was pretty easily able to find this one (based on my own experience – the peak temperature in the East Bay has always felt very late in the year): https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/541~3268/Comparison-of-th...
3 months? Wow. It should be impossible to put seasons on a shared calendar for the whole country.
Europe does not. Summer is June, July and August with a bit of give here and there.
Probably depends on where you are, etc., but as an European, I was taught in school two ways of splitting the year up into seasons: calendar/astrological and meteorological. Calendar split is based on solstices and equinoxes (21st March, 21st June, ...), whereas meteorological is based on month start (1st March, 1st June, ...). They use this also in weather reports, for example, where on 1st March they would add "Today starts meteorological spring" and on 21st March "Today starts calendar spring".
On the seasons front, traditionally in Ireland winter starts on Halloween (at sunset if you want to be really specific), and so you get winter is November till January, spring is February to April, summer is May to July and autumn is August to October.
That said being an English speaking country and absorbing a lot of media from other English speaking countries, there’s been a slow drift towards the American system making its way in, so younger generations are more likely to use American seasons and older people more likely to use traditional seasons, though you’ll find people of all age groups using either. Certainly they taught the traditional seasons in school when I was a kid, I wonder which they teach now.
(Of course, you could make yet another system based on the weather where summer is approximately two weeks in July, winter is a thing that happens every few years and the rest is a sequence of mild weather with occasional wind and scattered showers)
I find the "solstices/equinoxes mark starts of seasons" a bit foreign too, but… weather-wise, annual top and bottom temperatures are of course offset from the solstices due to thermal inertia.
In Finland the traditional division is that winter is Dec-Feb, spring is Mar-May, summer is Jun-Aug, and autumn is Sep-Nov. Historically it has made perfect sense, weather and climate wise – particularly from the point of view of agriculture, which is of course the reason people used to think about seasons in the first place!
February in particular is 100% winter in Finland with no signs of spring besides the days starting to get very noticeably longer by then. It's often the coldest month of the year and when schools usually have a week-long winter break. Similarly, August is very definitely a summer month except in the far north where spring comes late and autumn early. The academic year in schools and universities typically starts at the end of August, so that's a clear and important dividing line in many people's lifes. In Southern Finland, December is these days rather autumny more often than not, and there's often no lasting snow until January (if even then). June is a crapshoot, it can be nice and warm or surprisingly cold.
I guess Jan-Feb are definitely winter, Apr-May definitely spring, Jul-Aug definitely summer, and Oct-Nov definitely autumn. The rest are kind of transitional and their weather unpredictable. Of course, the climate change isn't helping things, either.
It's also funny how Finland has a concept of "thermic spring", which is defined by the temperature no longer dipping below 0° C, and the term doesn't exist in English because the definition wouldn't work in the climate of most of the English-speaking world.
This a common thing shared with the Nordics. The English term would be “meteorological spring”.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A5r_i_Sverige
The definition would certainly work in English countries, seeing it is just 0 to 10 degrees Celsius average over the course of a week (and after 15th of February).
On holidays, in the US, Thanksgiving is Fall-themed so we wouldn't want to start winter until after the 4th Thursday of November (which because of how it shifts around, pretty much means December).
You can get some black "machinist's layout bluing" which will stain it better than a sharpie would. It's not going to be a perfect color match but better than 50%
You can anodize aluminium black relatively easily, similar to this
https://youtu.be/y8HEZ-x4-_w?t=402
Getting the shade right could be tricky though.
The author seems to not realize the season are about temperature not about sunlight. If you align the season to northern hemisphere temperatures, where the first week of August is usually the hottest, they make sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season
> A season is a division of the year[1] based on changes in weather…
I have no dog in this fight but a friendly reminder that temperature and weather are not synonymous.
Maybe I'm autistic, but I loooove the sharp edges near the opening. They've become almost a nervous tick of playing with them with my fingers.
I've got no idea why, but the sharp feeling is amazing.
Sounds kinda like pain stimming. I'm not personally a fan, but that's a thing some autistic people do. They make purpose-built toys for that, though you might already be set with your laptop.
I chew my fingers because I find the pain calming.
I am autistic and I also enjoy the sharp edges, I rub my wrists up and down them sometimes and generally play with them, I find it very satisfying. I also suspect the laptop might not be as easy to carry around when open if edges were rounded?
this can't be how i find out...
This alone doesn’t mean much, but if the signs start to compound…
I'm conflicted -- the author's rounded Mac looks more comfortable to use, but aesthetically it looks worse. He turned the track pad notch into an amorphous shape that looks like a mistake.
There's certainly a % of mac users who prioritize aesthetics over function. I feel like there's got to be a way to do this in a way that's more attractive though. Maybe something more gradual or even.
I wonder what Apple estimates this percentage to be given some of their design decisions.
I suspect that with all things Apple 10% really care, 80% are indifferent and 10% really hate it. The middle 80% are happy to be led by those that really care.
For many power users, Macs are an invisible laptop that just works.
When apple releases a 12" retina Macbook M-series, I'll be the first in line, I don't think there's a better laptop for size and aesthetic.
I actually agree with this too — playing with the sharp edge is kind of satisfying. Like having something in your teeth that you're working on.
same, i really love it and i hove my hands typing so they've never caused pain anyway
I don't think there's anything inherently autistic about that. We just finally have these technologies sufficiently mature that materials and design are no longer strictly dictated by their function.
These objects are becoming more like clothing and less like unyielding industrial machines. It's to the point that I'd be genuinely disgusted to handle any used laptop regardless of how "clean" it is.
>We just finally have these technologies sufficiently mature that materials and design are no longer strictly dictated by their function.
It's not a new thing, cars started getting fins in 1948.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_tailfin
> materials and design are no longer strictly dictated by their function.
Ok… but I don't like to injure my wrists…
Love this! I did this in 2020 and until today I hadn't seen anyone else who had done it. If anyone is tempted, I recommend finishing the job with Micro-Mesh. IIRC, I went up to 12,000 grit and it results in a nicely polished look that catches the light beautifully.[1] I bet it would look even more striking on the actual black MacBooks we have today.
[1] https://x.com/andrewculver/status/1297575768520716288/photo/...
Black macbooks are anodized aluminum which are thin coatings that would be removed when filing. It might look cool but it’d be the silvery color of raw aluminum
worth noting that silver macbooks are also anodized aluminum, so you'll also be filing off anodization
Yes, exactly. The point I was trying to make is that with a black finish, exposing the original color of the aluminum would be even more striking.
I never owned the MacBook I used and the current one I do own I still consider selling one day. That's the only reason I'm not ready to replicate this on my own.
The edges are indeed extremely uncomfortable, not to mention how cold it is in winter.
Luckily its just sitting on a stand 99.9% of the time
Nitpicky, but he’s rounding the edges, not the corners.
And yes, why are they so sharp?
I seem to recall my wife having the plastic MacBook that came out circa 2006 and the edges on that thing were legitimately painful.
I always marvel at how sharp the points are on the notch of the lid on my current MacBook. Very very pointy.
> why are they so sharp?
they intentionally ship them sharp so you can file them down to your desired fillet
the design is very human
The past few generations I found I was not pleased with their performance, so now I take them weekly to the macbook sharpener at the saturday market.
It's great how apple makes everything so customizable
It's by design.
I think it’s different.
There are definitely corners by the trackpad, at the gap for opening the lid.
They are quite stabby and I hate them.
https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/aca51a7051edc493b19cfd93da...
The most material is removed at the corners of the lid-lifting notch. Those are IMO the most offensive pointy part on the body.
Yeah, I had thin insulation strips running around these edges because my wrists were legit getting sore from these edges. And then Apple replaced the bottom case so they're back, as sharp as ever.
Thank you! I zoomed in on the photo looking for sanded corners on the MacBook and saw none. Took me a sec to finally see the amorphous edge nr the trackpad...
They actually reduced sharpness in M MacBooks Pros.
Unibody Intels before that were really really sharp.
> Very very pointy.
I have intrusive thoughts of trying to cut my finger over it, but so far the attempts were unsuccesful.
why? Because Apple hates you and wants you to suffer.
Alternatively, because they care about aesthetics more than utility and comfort.
I bet the author deliberately called them “corners” instead of “edges” to put more people on edge.
I don't think apple computers are meant for people who do use computers. I used to have marks on my wrists (I no longer have an apple computer now).
Tell that to the people responsible for the trackpads of any other computer maker.
I wouldn't know, I use a trackpoint :)
Oh, it's you!
Apple computers are made for those who purchases a computer. They are engineered to look great on a demo shelf.
«During the first Jobsian era at Apple, I used to joke that Steve Jobs cared deeply about Apple customers from the moment they first considered purchasing an Apple computer right up until the time their check cleared the bank.» (Bruce Tognazzini)
It worked. Most people under 30 don't know Apple existed before the iPod / iPhone. ie: Before Jobs.
Of course it worked. Apple turned from a company that sells electronic equipment into a company that sells media consumption devices which double as fashion accessories signaling high social status. Of course the addressable market is 2-3 orders of magnitude larger.
They still sell computers, which count below 10% of the revenue, and are also partly fashion accessories.
s/Before/Between/
Lovely writing! And I think the understanding that one can and should modify their tools to their needs is rather rare and should be appreciated.
Presumably the understanding on the forum is greater when it comes to software tools. And I would usually say: don't be your computer's tool! :)
When it comes to software I've moved in the opposite direction. I want to customise my system as little as possible.
stay ready to have my toolbox change under my feet at the whims of clown PM and bean counters somewhere. wcgw
When I had a MacBook, I was quickly compelled to do something about the fact that its sharp edges scraped things, most notably scraping off the surface of my fingernails.
But the obvious way to handle that problem is to put it in a case. For example: https://www.itslaut.com/products/crystal-x-case-for-macbook-...
I wasn't thrilled with a product design that required a case to protect the rest of the world from the product, but it obviously makes more sense than trying to file the MacBook yourself.
I have thought about filing/sanding my MacBook forever and getting a case to solve the problem never even occurred to me. I feel a little silly now because it does seem obvious, but also to me just filing it down sounds like less work than picking out a case.
I thought this was going to be on a softwarefix for the appalling inconsistency that are macOS Tahoe window corners. What I found deeply disturbed me, though I must agree, the edges are a bit more sharp then I'd like and a slight curvature could probably prevent them showing wear and tear [0]. Good on op for doing something they like, even if it's really out there and I could see more "pillowy" hardware becoming a thing now, after a few years of sharp edged devices.
Since I mentioned Tahoe, it bears repeating, my spotlight is still broken.
[0] https://ljpuk.net/2025/05/23/how-does-the-space-black-macboo...
There's a more thorough version of this at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSaJAAqSAMw and the end-result doesn't look as tacky
if you want to do this, there is a better technique than shown in this video.
get a single-cut fine file, maybe with a little more weight than the one in the video. single cut file has diagonal slots and allows firm and continuous contact with the piece. most files are double cut, have two sets of slots and look like bumpy diamonds. they remove more material but tend to bounce.
use long even strokes with firm pressure, only during the fore stroke. watch out for roll-off, where you unconsciously change the angle or pressure of the file as you're at the end of the stroke.
you can make a pretty even-looking chamfer that way.
I've been thinking of just using sandpaper stuck to a block of wood, though I imagine that might be slower.
Heck, a little part of me is tempted to try the smallest radius round-over router bit I have in a trim router, but the odds of that going horribly wrong are just way too high.
Or get a Dremel.
There's absolutely no way you get a good result with a Dremel.
Hey man, you keep doing you and let the haters wash off your shoulders. I'm left-handed and remove the pocket clip from all of my knives.
The power to personalize should not be underestimated--even at the cost of durability and overall functionality.
I can see Apple doing something similar in the future. Just like how they are pivoting away from flat design in their ui, perhaps the time is ready for a more "organic" design. Wonder what marketing term they would use
> This was on my work computer
is this an employer-issued computer? Like if I did something similar on my DELL laptop (us lowly devs at %DAY_JOB% don't have Macs), management would be up my ass the minute they saw this, if only because the maintenance agreement the company has with our supplier will likely be voided for my machine.
That was my first thought, I don't think my employer would be cool with this somehow
I have done this to every work Macbook I have received since 2015. No one has ever said anything.
As I'm typing on mine right now, I wonder why they made these so sharp. It hasn't cut me yet, but they are decidedly uncomfortable.
>I wonder why they made these so sharp
So the seam looks neat when the macbook is closed, eg. https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/MacBo...
Form over function
Yes although every time I open the lid with one hand I wonder why no other manufacturer seems to get their hinge friction so perfect.
Probably because it looks nice and crisp
It is for cutting cake did everyone forget??? https://techcrunch.com/2008/06/01/the-macbook-air-thin-enoug...
I just came into Mac world for work and struggle to understand the choices Apple makes:
- Sharp edges eat into my forearms.
- Glossy screen makes it hard to see when it's light out.
- The keys have a real hard stop when you press on them which tires out my hands.
- An arrogant desire to obsolete ports.
I don't understand the appeal of the machine, it feels like style over function everywhere.
Design aside, the quality is undeniable, the price is reasonable and the M chips have been in their own league of efficiency. (Tho the new Intel and Qualcomm chips look to be catching up)
I, too, only use Macs when my employer forces me to do so. Here's how I made it bearable: MacBook lid stays closed at all times; plug it into a Thunderbolt hub (requires just 1 Thunderbolt port for everything); connect a proper matte monitor, external keyboard, Logitech mouse.
Now the only annoying things are the MacOS window manager (uBar attempts to fix this, but is flaky) and the weird keyboard mappings for things like "start of line", "end of line", "previous word", etc. Karabiner fixes those if you're willing to invest 3 hours in setting it up.
> weird keyboard mappings for things like "start of line", "end of line", "previous word"
Those are Emacs keybindings, and they're also present by default in Bash since they were copied by GNU Readline. They're one of the few things I really like about macOS. (But I'm an Emacs user and I'm also used to using them in my terminal.)
The window manager never stops sucking. Rectangle and Contexts or Witch help. Ice helps with the stupid menu bar design and problems with overflowing icons or oversized menus.
For window manager try rectangle or aerospace
It's actually reveal the major issue in Apple products where aesthetics prevail over tactile. Sharp edges and aluminium is the worst way to make things that people use by fingers. I have some older version of Apple TV remote control and every day I wonder how it was approved to production, it's barely usable.
I'm strongly convinced that modern iPhones designed to use in case as basic idea, while using iPhone without case is like using that Nokia phone unit when you take the housing off. In that case I think that iPad with magnetic keyboard (which is soft-touch plastic) is the future of Apple mobile computers.
Yes the front edge is too sharp for me too, more on the middle right where I rest my hand. It hurts.
I think there must be a better solution than a file, like an attachment to effectively round the edges, or even something like fingerless gloves.
On the other hand Apple always replace the top case when the keyboard needs changing so the filing approach may not be entirely insane. It might send a message to Apple.
I feel like glueing on an attachment or putting on gloves (!!) to use your laptop is in fact a much worse solution to the issue of "edge is too sharp" than...making the edge less sharp...
Especially the gloves, come one, that's peak Apple "you're just using it wrong" mentality. Apple made a bad usability decision for the sake of sexier design. It's not your fault, it's theirs. Fix the defect, not yourself.
Somebody should offer a service to chuck up Macbooks in a CNC mill and hit them with a chamfer tool
As a bonus the machine looks like crap so it’s far less likely to get stolen.
I think it looks nice.
Though you're right that machines whose exteriors are customized and unusual are less likely to get stolen.
Yeah, they are quite uncomfortable. A clear "form before function" decision, and one of many "the wrong people are deciding things" signs :/
I like the idea of fully blending the notch, rather than just rounding slightly. Looks comfy and distinct!
I can imagine the resulting texture feeling better on the skin, but I can't unsee the lack of symmetry.
Doing this to a work computer seem a bit questionable from the ethical standpoint.
Totally fine to do whatever you want to your personal belongings though.
My work computer is missing two keys and has been since they signed it out to me.
I'm betting they don't notice if I file down the corners. Hell they probably wouldn't notice if I just cut the corners off with a fret saw. But God forbid I try to install an ad blocker or use Firefox.
I promise you they’re claiming taxes on the depreciation of that machine every year. If anything they’ll be upset you didn’t tell them sooner so they could have claimed more.
If you're a US employee being paid market wages, the cost of the Macbook is rather trivial compared to how much you cost the company, and how much it costs them for you to be not working. But some lower-level managers and employees don't seem to understand this.
“DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE PRICE FOR THE PARTS AND LABOR TO REPLACE A SINGLE, GENUINE, APPLE-BRAND, 2021, MACBOOK PRO KEYCAP?!?! CALL THE ACCOUNTANTS, WE WONT BE PAYING TAXES FOR A FEW YEARS!!!”
> Doing this to a work computer seem a bit questionable from the ethical standpoint.
"Ethical standpoint" seems like the wrong choice of words. I think you mean "equipment ownership standpoint.". Ethical implies a set of values, vs contractual terms of equipment use.
You can't be unethical to your employer, only to people like your coworkers and customers, or other living beings that your business activity impacts.
> This was on my work computer.
Bold move to do this on your work Macbook. I'd be too worried of getting chased down with a bill when returning the laptop eventually.
‘I’ve done a lot of work and it wore down’
Honestly that was the cherry on top for me -- the employee confident enough to just decide "this is my work computer, I need it to do work, I can't do work with my hands being irritated, so I will sand down the edge." Pure gold.
> This was on my work computer.
I would love to see the guys reactions when you have to give this back.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to freak out about it. I did so, but only a little bit. Then i thought about how i have sometimes felt the bottom corner to be a bit uncomfortable. But then i thought that it wasnt a big enough issue to be worth the effort of filing off the edge
Also a little bit pedantry, you seem to have mostly filed the edge off, which seemed to be the real issue, the corners on that center divet are filed off, but its mostly edges
I have a similar problem. My handicap makes it impossible to use the huge trackpad of all newer MacBooks. I am working still with a 2012 MacBook Pro that had a considerable smaller trackpad. Any idea from you guys how to circumvent these trackpad monsters? Thanks for any suggestion.
This reminds me of the shim scene in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".
>it is uncomfortable on my wrists
Are your wrists supposed to be coming into contact with that? I suspect many of us have bad posture and do rest our wrists like that, but if your concern is wrist comfort, you probably want to consider that you're going out of your way to enable harmful posture.
A few weeks ago I accidentally dropped my space grey MBP. It had the lip open and fell on its right corner, inner/keyboard side.
The machine is fine and I didn’t even have to adjust the screen as it was still correctly in place but on that corner the aluminium lifted up forming a mountain shape, about 2 mm tall and very sharp.
Not only this was uncomfortable, but it also meant I couldn’t close the lid properly and might eventually crack the screen from it, so I filed it away. Like OP, I started with a pretty gritty file to get most of the tip off, then finished with a multi-tool with the sanding attachment. I went through a few grits but I got bored long before it was smooth.
In the end, I actually liked the look, and have been considering going all around like OP. I may have to do it now.
I feel like this is only a problem if you’re keeping your wrists at an unergonomic angle. I’m not saying that everyone is perfect all the time but like this is barely an issue if you’re sitting at your desk?
Laptops are used in so many more situations than just sitting at a desk.
Literally "you're holding it wrong".
Most of those are wrong, yes
> I’m not saying that everyone is perfect all the time but like this is barely an issue if you’re sitting at your desk?
It's a laptop computer.
Yes. I keep mine on my lap. My regimen is that I wake up at 3am and lie on the couch for several hours with coffee and write code (or these days, ask "someone else" to). It is highly productive and enjoyable and breaks all the rules and no I do not have RSI. Long ago I started sandpapering the edges because yeah otherwise it hurts my wrists.
It's a good move. I have a case on my MBP that helps with this because it means the edges are plastic for me, and not quite so sharp.
If you want to break more rules, you might consider chickenwing-ing your arms a bit. Deviate from the homerow and learn to feel your way around at other angles. Then you can hold the laptop closer to you without putting your wrists at a weird angle (though you may have to use a non-thumb finger for spacebar, as I do).
As I type this, my laptop is partly on my belly and partly on my chest, and my wrists are so far out to the sides that they completely miss the front edge of the laptop altogether. The angle is pretty favorable, too: my palms rest on the laptop on either side of the trackpad, and my wrists rest over the left and right sides of the bottom case but have little to no pressure on them.
No RSI here, either. Just make sure you're loose and comfortable and not forcing anything! That seems to help a lot.
I do not in fact keep my desktop computer on my desk
You're holding it wrong.
I'm not brave enough to try this on my own, but I applaud the effort. I'm pretty sure I'm developing lasting calluses on the underside of my wrists from all the constant rubbing against the sharp edge of my MBP.
A spinal injury three years ago made me above-averagely aware of ergonomics, as I created a dedicated office (chairs, floating supports for monitors, keyboards, etc.) that would support the injury.
I have to say that I now access the 8 or so machines across my LAN and VPS via a Macbook Air rested on my lap, either through RDP or SSH. I probably use this 80% of the time. Because the machine is on my lap, held up at about 30 degrees on my lap, I can't say I ever noticed the sharp edges, until this post!
my m1 max macbook pro 14 has small little divots out of the edge on the right side (not on the left) presuambly because of where my wrist sits when using the track pad. It would be nice it there was some radius on it to not cause that.
Can anyone explain why i get sharp electrical shocks when i touch the bottom edges with my wrists? Or its just me?
Not just you. If you use the Apple extension cord with the 3 prong outlet plug, this doesn’t happen.
MacBooks (and many laptops) have a tiny amount of alternating current that leaks through the metal chassis to ground. When you use the compact 2-prong power adapter (the “duck head” without a ground pin), there’s no path for this leakage current to safely flow to earth ground — so it flows through you instead, creating that tingling sensation.
Interestingly I haven’t felt this when using my 2 prong NAND Anker adapter.
A hero post. I'm pretty sure we'll be able to shave using the edge of iPhone Air 20 or whatever they are coming up with. iPhone Stiletto.
dear apple, please bring back the wedge shaped design of the macbook air m1 https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/04/after-14-years-ap...
Love mine. Filed that edge too.
Did the same for my Macbook Pro 15 unibody circa 2010. It was a great QoL improvement.
What was wrong with a $20 palm rest/cover? It would also protect it for resale value.
I've been meaning to do this forever and think this game me the push I've needed to do it tonight when I get home. Probably not as rounded as OP, but it's reassuring to know I could go that rounded and it wouldn't fall apart.
Yeah, a very admirable project indeed.
maybe a better approach to start with computers that already have ergonomic chassis (they exist) and then spend energy for modifying tools on what happens inside of them?
Physical objects should be rounded, virtual windows should be square. I will die on this hill.
Tim Cook here, we've heard you loud and clear, the next Macbook will have a perfectly circular screen with square windows.
Jony Ive here. I’ll come back and help make your new keyboard perfectly flat and seamless- touchpad based, and we’ll remove all ports. Bluetooth devices only.
Alan Dye here. I'm coming back to Apple, and the next versions of the operating systems will not even have visible controls or icons. You just have to click on the beautiful, clear windows and hope you're interacting with the right UI elements.
Steve Ballmer here, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!
DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS. DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS. WHOOOOOOOOOO!!!
also, where is the new version of Visual Basic, Ballmer? Your sweaty chants can only distract me for so long…. Wait….. ITS BEEN TWENTY YEARS!?!?
Cave Johnson here. I'll be honest, we're throwing science at the wall here to see what sticks. No idea what it'll do. Probably nothing. Best-case scenario, you might get some superpowers.
Scott Forstall here. I’ll resign before I apologize for the choices we make at Apple. All our research shows you’re gonna love it, and if you say you don’t it’s because you’re wrong, not me.
Steve Jobs here, this user is wrong and you are both fired for not realizing this
In response, I expect the open-source community to make an optimal square packing window manager. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_packing
Mini Cooper redux.
Eizo made a square 1920 x 1920 monitor which was quite nice: https://www.eizo.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/
I had a blackberry passport and it had a lot going for it(best keyboard ever on a phone) but one thing I really liked for reasons I don't understand is it had a square screen and took square photos.
Square sensors ought to be more common because they maximize the field of view for a given lens. Well, apart from circular sensors.
Square (or squarish) formats were pretty standard in pro photography once upon a time. Bliss, the Windows wallpaper, was shot on a camera that shoots in 6x7 natively (that's a nominal 6cm x 7cm, really it's more like 55mm x 65mm) A lot of other medium format cameras also shot in 6x7 or 6x6. And of course, 8x10 is still the standard "medium size print." I find square (or squarish) easier to compose with than wide ratios. Street photography, portraits, and sports photography don't often benefit from wider ratios, to name a few examples.
That looks genuinely useful - I could see positioning a monitor like that on either side of my main monitor, at an angle, and using them for docs, reference material, slack, calendars, etc. All the screen space of a dual-monitor setup, without the separation right in the center! Ah well, shame they're no longer made.
LG sells a DualUp monitor that is 2560x2880, same size as two 2560x1440 displays stacked on top of each other: https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-28mq780-b-dualup-monitor
Yep, though what I would want is the width and height swapped. You can rotate the monitor, but then the subpixel layout isn’t good for text.
This worked great for a home arcade machine. Kind of expensive, but worked equally well for both 4:3 games (Super Mario) and 3:4 games (Pac Man).
Thanks, I hate it
Also, real windows and displays should have square corners, too. I refuse to buy a new phone until manufacturers stop cutting corners.
Hmm. Android uses the curvy bits for status so the main area is rectangle. So it is OK. It has the advantage of curved corners on casing to reduce chance of cracking screen on a drop.
Or you could forget the borderless screen and add a bezel so I can hold my phone without touching the screen. Then you've got enough room to curve the corners and have square screen corners.
> windows should be square
found the Windows 8 enthusiast! haha, I kid. (I myself use a tiling window manager , i3, with completely square windows without any gaps or rounding)
Haha, Windows had square windows long before 8.
If I could run the Windows 2000 UI on a modern OS I would but any recent clone/theme/etc feels too uncanny valley.
My custom XFWM theme has square corners on windows without focus and large-radius rounded corners on the one window with focus.
The square corners are part of a 2 pixel wide border (one black, one white) because who needs to waste space on handling things we aren't manipulating? But the title bar is high-contrast, because you'll go looking for it when you want to switch windows.
The round corners go with a fairly thick border in a customizable color, usually something very bright in the yellow, orange or cyan ranges. When you sit down, you should immediately know what is active.
I like rounding the corners on i3. It is a bit wasteful but the base WM is so efficient with my pixels that I have some to spare.
Not having i3 is truly the worst part about Macs.
(Yes, please tell me about some buggy half-compatible tiling window manager for my Mac.)
For real. Doesn't help that the three/four finger swipe between full screen windows/workspaces has a mandatory animation that you can't disable (you can turn on "reduce motion", but it simply changes the scrolling animation into an equally time-wasting fading animation).
Surely MacOS has some nice virtual machine that you could run Linux in?
Virtual machines aren't the solution for day-to-day computing though. You're missing out on the graphics acceleration, being able to plug things in that just work, and so on.
If you're running your UI on a Linux VM....why not just used Linux?
UTM.
You were being sarcastic, but aerospace is100% worth setting up
Try exfoliating your wrists with square virtual windows
Well you wont die on that hardened steel cube :)
Yes, the glass UI is the first step. Well done!
Nope. Virtual windows are rectangular because the screen is also rectangular while being small enough to see the edges within our field of view.
They don't have to be any particular shape or size. The property of being virtual overrides everything else when free of these self-imposed constraints.
Even if you lose the GUI and go back to text, the ideal terminal is a plane of infinite columns of arbitrary cell size that dynamically fills your field of view.
I'd further argue that the only reason VR/AR isn't more widely adopted is the lack of orthographic vs perspective modality per application (and uncomfortable headsets). In VR/AR, you don't want a window manager or even windows at all. What you want is a field manager (as in FOV "fields" of varying opacity that can be composited by the user). Shape and size is just an arbitrary region blended in with the environment.
For the sake of ergonomics, you'd more often prefer to project an interface onto a surface if you had the choice. When you don't, you probably want the projection to be orthographic, but for the edges to be fuzzy if not invisible. You'd generally want to be able to layer these interfaces as well instead of having opaque rectangles always in your way.
I don't think GP was advocating for actually square windows. Rather that the corners should be right angles.
This makes perfect sense considering that most LCD displays, and practically all computer displays, don't have rounded corners. This trend of rounding displays and GUI elements is purely an aesthetic choice. I also find this obnoxious since the only thing it does is rob me of a few pixels which are often useful.
But considering Apple users have accepted living without a large block of pixels dead center at the top of the screen, which they've been sold as a "feature", the rounded corners are likely even less of an issue.
I'm not sure that an infinite plane of pixels makes sense even in XR. I want to see a clear edge of where digital content begins and ends, and a rectangle is the simplest and most optimal shape for that. So I would rather have physical display-like floating rectangles, than floating text in arbitrary locations, or rounded off corners for the sake of aesthetics. I'm not opposed to a very slight rounding off of edges on certain elements, but the trend Apple is pushing is supremely ridiculous.
Yeah I don't think we disagree. I just think you all's preference for windows, tiles, etc. (anything rectangular and opaque) is rooted in an idealistic efficiency of pixels (or irrational fear of deception?) just as unergonomic and frustrating to everyone else.
I'm saying that there is room for your arbitrary preference for opaque rectangles if we all abandon the notion of a "screen". We are well past the point where we can do this economically. It only persists because of consumer acceptance. Traditional screens are less efficient in every tangible way. They are less power efficient for their apparent brightness and require more material to construct.
Even the notion of clear boundaries and pixel size is an illusion. Traditional screens only make the pixels so big because they require sufficient brightness and power to see them at that distance, not because we cannot manufacture smaller pixels for cheaper. We could have much better results for everyone and the only remaining cost/problem is finding a way to comfortably wear the display.
Nice initiative but I would personally prefer adding some kind of padding, which is an easier solution to the problem, not as drastic, reversible, and less controversial. Unless doing something controversial is one of the goals here, which is also fair.
How are you gonna close the lid when there is padding in the way?
Thin padding? Removable padding? Squishable padding? (Is that a word?) I assume that filing the edge leaves an ugly gap when closing the lid, so that is not ideal either.
To my great dismay, I discovered the physical incompatibility of two Apple products recently: The sharp edge of my MBP and my Apple Watch’s magnetic strap. It seems that the magnets are an effective abrasive, resulting in a ruined strap and a rounded edge.
Thank you Apple, you have taken designed obsolescence to a new level.
Mac users since 2010. Never noticed the sharp edges. I am just keen on not having that little red ball in the middle of the keyboard á la Elitebook.
Give the TrackPoint a go. If you configure the sensitivity and acceleration properly, it can be an extremely productive way to move the mouse.
I've done this to my MacBook around the sharp and unpleasant corners near the touchpad. I had the laptop a few weeks before I couldn't take how unpleasant it was to touch any more.
Cool, but why is the most rounded-off part in the center? My wrists cover the edge at 5-25% and 75-95% when typing. When mousing, my right hand fleshy pad covers the edge at 65-80%.
I think because they had to. The rounded-off center part is actually the part you usually stick your finger into to lift up the lid. So it wasn't done for wrist ergonomics, but rather because it would've otherwise been sharp. The result is a big hole in the center.
It looks a bit strange, but to each their own, I suppose.
EDIT: this thing, below the trackpad https://imgur.com/a/DVzlDOj (What’s that even called? And is there a better image hosting service than Imgur?)
It’s not only more comfortable to file off those sharp edges but also makes the laptop less dangerous to carry around. Those sharp edges not only cause discomfort but can chip paint, damage furniture, and inflict damage in general. If you had to you could use it as a weapon I suppose.
Yea, that's ugly. I'm sure it could've been done more gracefully with 15 minutes more effort. But judging from the general wear and tear on this poor Mac I guess they don't even consider the resale value.
I can't even imagine prioritizing resale value here over one's own comfort. The purpose of a tool is to be used, not to serve as an asset class.
Sure, but comfort != abuse :D Apart from the filing, I can't think of ways to make such a recent Mac look like this. Did it suffer a plane crash? Acid attack? Thermite fire?
I appreciate the customization, but would probably make an effort to make it not look like (another) accident.
I think he is not worried about the resale value.
> This was on my work computer. I expect to similarly modify future work computers, and I would be happy to help you modify yours if you need a little encouragement.
I don’t understand the actual decision but I appreciate the gusto with which it was made.
The main reason to consider resale value is 1-2 years later you may want to upgrade and selling it to another person typically yields you more money than trading it in with Apple. Doing something like this may decrease how much you could sell it for later.
If you’re not planning on doing that then it’s not really a factor for you.
> work computer
Seriously, I have several mac laptops dating back to 2004 and they all have less wear than that.
I go through at least one dimestore nail file on every Macbook. The edge near the front touchpad always gets treated.
Ah man, I hate how sharp the edges are. Good solution
This reminds me of a problem we hit at work. Ended up going a different direction but same root issue.
Probably don't do this if you have a magnesium-aluminum alloy laptop.
Depending on exactly how much magnesium is in the alloy, metal shavings can be highly flammable and otherwise hazardous.
I think it's fine to mess with stuff like this, just make sure you know what you can do safely to the materials.
I salute your can-do spirit and your will to customise your tools to your preferences.
I also think you're an animal and need to be stopped before you do more damage to perfectly well designed machines.
I use a case on my MacBooks to protect them from damage. These cases are made of softer materials that are easier to chamfer. I make a similar modification when necessary. Sometimes it's worse with the plastic cases because the injection mold seam is that sharp edge.
There’s something lovely about this.
To my eye, it is like the patina that your favorite tools get.
I’m looking at you, 40 year old tape measure.
Sitting in a reclined position on the train, I’ve had a MacBook fly into my face when the car lurched and slice my nose open. Bled all over.
If most laptop sales were still made in person, in a physical store, maybe laptops would still have rounded edges and maybe even flowing shapes
Nice. Maybe a touch of 600 and 1200 wet/dry sandpaper (with some dish soap lubricant)?
I do this too, although only the corners. It's one of the only design failures of the MacBook.
Love that he took it so far. I filed mine a while back - it’s so much more comfortable to use. When I drop it and a corner get mashed, I file that back flat. It reminds me of kintsugi where it shines from the fine filing.
I filed my work dell laptop too. Very different feel, but it is nice not living in feel of your own stuff.
Depending on how I'm using the computer, I may definitely have deep marks after working laying down, but if I sit in a wood chair for a while it's the same thing- and my forearm is much tougher than behind my knee.
I suppose I would prefer it nice and rounded and soft on my wrist - but I don't feel like it's quite as extreme as this thread would have you believe lol
The sharp and high edges leave a mark in my skin. The older MacBook Air design was lower, so resting your palms wouldn’t give me this
A very even 45 degree cut, like the cut to lift the screen but much shallower would look pretty cool. Maybe 2mm wide
I would do this but cant stand the MacBook keyboards anyway. Even a cheap $50 amazon mechanical is a much more ergonomic experience
I would love to see a Unibody polished to a mirror finish. Would be a perfect match for Queen Amidala’s shuttle.
I also hate these sharp edges. After a long working session I have deep grooves in my wrists, and my skin is red with irritation. It's uncomfortable enough that it distracts me from work. It's the very antithesis of good design.
Everyone should be personalizing their belongings to suit their needs and desires. Living with belongings that make you feel anything less than happy and satisfied is NOT necessary.
This is a particularly hilarious customization both for its combined utility and shock value and also for doing it on a work computer.
I did this at my last job, it's nice.
Definitely didn't expect this to be about literally filing the corners off. Bravo! I think it looks pretty great, not sure I'd do it to one of mine
I wonder if it would be possible to sand down a MacBook surface to the grade where it was all shiny mirror like the Apple logo, e.g. with car polish :-) The "untouchable" MacBook mirror :-)
My first reaction to this was something akin to "what a terrible day to be literate" but the more I think about it, I admire how you're not afraid to change something about YOUR machine, that YOU paid for. Still wouldn't do this myself tho ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When I was actively using my Macbook 2014, I did the same, though to lesser extent and in a uniform way. The edge was way too sharp.
The author has the same problem as myself; there’s a permanent imprint on the screen that sits right where the screen makes contact with the topside of the touchpad.
It’s quite an annoying flaw, and i’ve only had this problem with the machines since the M1 redesign
Maybe it's just me, but I think it looks kind of cool. I like how it tapers from the ultra-smooth front to the jagged back edges. Only suggestion would be to use better tools to do the filing, since it looks a bit uneven/rough.
At one point due to the way I was using my just above my wrist my skin basically calloused from the edge of the macbook. Now at least the lid is not that sharp but it used to be I recall and I always worried about kids getting hit by it in case of an accident.
I'd like to see some side-by-side before and after photos
Truly the most horrifying post on HN I've seen in quite a while
Maybe it's because I type like one would play the piano (with hands curved, fingers well below the palms), but I've never ran into an issue like this with a laptop before, wrists always clear the edges by a couple inches.
All the same, hell yeah.
There are plenty of laptops out there that have square edges on the user-facing edge. However, most are tapered and/or have hinge designs that tilt the laptop surface towards the user, dropping that square edge away from the user's wrists.
Most Apple laptops, such as the latest Pro's, are level, rather than tapered, and sit flat so that the user-facing edge cuts into your wrists. It's bad ergonomics, plain and simple. If you value function over form enough to modify your tools in this way, choose better tools.
Choosing tools is not easy. Last time I bought a laptop was 2014. My goal was running Linux. My other requirements were, in order of importance, without explanation:
3 physical buttons below the touchpad. That removed really many laptops. They would be nearly zero today, or really zero.
15 inches screen. Common.
Matte finish. Common.
User serviceable hardware. That removed many other laptops.
No number pad. I had to give up on that or I would have no laptop to buy.
I ended up with the first generation HP ZBook 15.
I'm very tempted to try this although I worry that the rubber "seal" around the edges of the screen will no longer have anything to butt up against, meaning there's glass-on-metal contact when it's closed?
Ok I did it, but to a lesser extent to OP, so it definitely doesn't affect the seal. Even a small radius makes a big difference to comfort!
Factory distressed Fender Stratocasters coming up...
One of the ATPers was going on and on a bit ago about how the Neo is very "rounded" and "not sharp" compared to the Pro. I wonder if it would need this.
That's some really poor filing job :D but yeah custom tools is the way to go
Just a few drops of mercury on aluminium kills it.
Not just sides, the vents are much sharper.
Few years back, I tried to look on reddit for complaints regarding this - barely anything.
I dropped my MBA on concrete and the edges got dinged up and sharp.
A bit of 220 grit sandpaper and all the sharp edges are smooth and it actually looks pretty cool. I was grimacing at first but now I like the feel.
Too many MBAs, not enough concrete.
Too bad my Mac is company owned, maybe I'd use it in a "laptop mode" more if it didn't slit wrists.
I did this on the macs at an old job, but not as drastic. It really doesn’t need much to ..ahem… take the edge off.
Would be cool if somebody would make a round over or chamfer plane that would allow you to remove the corner with a higher finished look.
I too find the sharp corners incredibly uncomfortable for my weak sensitive baby wrists but I chose to overcome this by wearing a wrist band. Two very different approaches
Yeah, I wear a wrist band as well. I've used these (https://www.vivehealth.com/products/wrist-support) for some years now but they've since changed the material to something with less give.
Do you have a brand you'd recommend?
I smoothed the sharp corners of the notch by the keyboard, and smoothed a corner where it got dinged from a drop, but nothing this extensive.
Respect.
I definitely empathize with "concerned I would file through the machine."
This is so triggering.
On one of my old MacBook Pros, I managed to do this naturally through friction from my wrist moving back and forth on the keyboard for years; good idea to get ahead of it.
The Apple Watch Ultra also has an aggressively sharp screen edge. It's kept me from upgrading from my current watch (Model 8). But maybe I would get use to it?
The side that faces your wrist is rounded - only the face is sharp. I haven't noticed any issues with the edge wearing the thing.
I was worried about scratches because I abuse the shit out of anything I wear, and sure enough, there are scratches in the titanium bezel, but they look good in a way that scratches on my (non-pro) steel Apple Watch did not.
This is the spicy content I come here to read. I wouldn’t do it myself but god speed to anyone who does.
It was oddly satisfying taking a file to my MacBook when a drop lifted a nasty burr on the edge.
Very minor "you can just do things" collides with the "infallible object" presence that Apple wants for its products - almost feels "wrong", but it's a nice norm to break.
(and I'm not a "Cult of Mac" guy)
you can just do things: https://ebay.us/m/vWMAUU
Another thing that multiple generation of MacBook Airs used to do is constantly be running (sometimes quite painful) amounts of electricity through your wrists if they accidentally touched the metal.
Not sure if the Apple Silicon devices have the same issue - but it was consistent through at least 3 different generations.
I remember, at university we had rows of metal chairs and one single person with a macbook could occasionally electrocute multiple people.
The clearest demonstration that the knife edge is dumb is that there isn't a similar sharp edge around the exterior.
This is very interesting Maybe I'll do this when my mac is a couple years old haha
Maybe it’s the lighting, but that doesn’t look even on both sides to me - that’d bother me more than the sharpness.
So, is rasping a subset of hacking now? Goodness.
You mac people are masochistic freaks. Buying overpriced hardware that you hate the design of just to file off the corners.
Fans of My Mechanics on YouTube will chuckle at this.
The channel’s Swiss host is famous for removing sharp edges from metal things.
One concern with doing this would be when you pack it in a bag and the screen would now flex more than usual, leading to excessive wear of the anti-reflective coating on these screens.
Since the edge has been filed away, the rubber seal on the screen would no longer presses against the edge of the body protecting the screen.
It’s not just the edge but the corners where the finger accommodation is for opening the lid.
There’s a sharp corner there is unnecessary.
I don't want to do the whole front edge but this has definitely inspired me to take a file to these notch corners
The sharp points by the track-pad are bad design. Ive made some terrible decisions when he wanted to show off.
Sharp edges and an axehead-like profile wear down the bottom of the laptop sleeve in my office-commuter hand luggage. Solved by putting my old MacBook Air in a neoprene pocket case before putting the whole thing, now with the double-thickness :-( p into my sachel.
If only they'd round the edges/corners of the body instead of the screen and the UI
External keyboard and mouse too easy?
Unless you fly/train travel alot I guess.
Is it me or is that aluminum already developing some stress cracking?
One way to equalize the form > function equation!
Brilliant. Love the tech-disrespect and the “right to repair”!
Did this too. Absolutely ridiculous I had to :(
This is… unusual.
You don't dock your MacBook for long sesh?
I first encountered this in-person on a Mac Mini many years ago, which to be fair is not meant to be touched all the time, but it was still slightly repulsive. It has a surprising weight and uncomfortable sensation like picking up a freshly-cut block of metal. Then I realised Apple did the same with their laptops which are meant to be touched. They do have rounded corners, but not on the axes where the roundedness is useful. In contrast, Thinkpads look sharp-edged with square corners but are actually confortable to hold.
Older Thinkpad were made without the sharp edge. I love the edge on the X230 and I've been wondering why no designer has taken a look at these to make new laptop.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
Early Saturday morning and what a simple, to-the-point read about irreverence :D Gave me my new maxim - "Fuck about a bit" Created a poster out of it :D https://nextfive.xyz/bits/2026/04/11/fuck-around-a-bit.html
If this was a service in San Francisco I’d pay for it. I don’t want the particles in my space if I were to do it in my home
It's a symptom of improper prioritization of values: form over function and usability.
Form only matters to a tool if function and usability are present, otherwise that object becomes more like art than a tool.
I just put a plastic case on my MacBook…
Wish I had the courage to do this too.
Takes a real bastard to do this.
…file.
It is kind of funny how all the comments are like “yes, finally, file away!” Instead of taking a step back and asking why half the users don’t get these issues at all with the way they lay their hands on the keyboard. I’ve been using metal macbooks for as long as they’ve been around and this is the first I’m hearing of it. Maybe I’m holding it right.
I have calluses on my wrists from years of using MacBooks, so the sharp corners are no longer a problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't have any trouble with the corner on my MacBooks. But now I'm disappointed that Apple added an extra few grams to my MacBook Air that they could have avoided without damaging functionality.
on the tool analogy :
only the biggest POS tools have bad ergonomics on the industrial side. The real quality tools, the ones meant to be used on the factory floor or in a production line, think of human ergonomics first .
I would probably be considering that as I took a file to my laptop in order to keep it from cutting into my skin as I used it.
I applaud the ingenuity, but I detest the concept of aesthetic-first engineering without a thought for the human user of the thing. Vote with your dollar.
In the case of parent : I admire your ability to cope and the chutzpah it took to take a file to company property.
on a side note : I think it's absolutely fascinating in every Apple thread watching users trade tips on how to avoid electric shock, electrolytic/chemical pitting, and skin cuts like it's just normal computing worries. You folks have some thick skin to keep at it. I would be rubberizing the whole damn thing after the first zap.
Goodbye resale value
anything but admitting the design is bad and frivolous
I hate those sharp edges. I've contemplated taking a router with a carbide roundover to mine many times.
I just asked an LLM this exact question; it said "sure, but use cutting fluid, ensure the bit is carbide, slow the router speed down to 10-16k rpm, go slow, and clean off the flutes if they get gummed"
And dont climb-cut
Finally, now I know I'm not the only one! These sharp edges constantly cut into my wrists to the point I was thinking of doing the same, or glueing some kind of kind soft padding to the edges. Great someone did it. I wonder how far can you cut them?
I did this when my old 2011 Air dropped the fiftieth time and the sides showed some pitting. The aluminium body is a godsend.
I did something similar with drawer handles. I was living in a place with cheap furniture and the handles were aluminum billet cut to length and tapped so it could be screwed to the drawer face. The edge on either side were crazy sharp. If you bumped it with your knee you'd easily cut the skin.
So I took some 1000 grit sand paper for metal and gently wet sanded the edge. If you rotate it a little you can get a very small radius evenly around the edge and it will keep a nice finish that matches brushed aluminum.
I'd actually feel comfortable doing this to a Macbook having done it to the drawer handles. Just use little pressure, back the paper with something flat, and check your progress often. It takes very little to remove the sharpness to the edge, to the point it's hard to see with the naked eye.
It’s interesting to me that this makes it look old. Even slightly retro. Makes me think of early 2010s ultrabooks.
Well, this can be read as a nice hack or ...
... it means the OPs job does not provide external monitors and proper keyboards :)
Some people visit customers, work on the go, work in a cafe, etc. That's the point of getting a laptop, no?
I can't downvote you enough for this comment, but hopefully others will. You're arguing that a device designed for portability is perfect as it is because you're supposed to use external monitors and proper keyboards. This is peak HN/Reddit/"current society", whatever you want to call it.
I'm arguing that using a laptop without dedicated input and display peripherals if you can avoid it is a bit of masochism and filing off the corners won't fix it.
If my work computer were my own I would do this in a second. The MacBook pro is ridiculously uncomfortable, both in terms of geometry and heat. I don't mind when it gets warm but on a cold morning it's just downright unpleasant to get working on it.
I have never understood how Jony Ive is highly regarded as a designer when he put not only sharp, aluminum edges but sharp aluminum corners exactly where your body spends almost all the time for continuous contact with the device.
He honestly seems like a terrible designer, which seems corroborated by him doing nothing of remote interest outside of Apple and barely inside it. The items that are regarded as design epochs, like the iPod, we're not his.
Savage.
OMFG I am so glad to hear I am not the only one! The stupid thing hurt my wrists on the white Macbook generation so I shaved it off so it wasn't so sharp.
Love it, this is the ultimate laptop sticker.
I dealt with sharp edges issue by investing in an Andar leather case. Works just as well.
https://www.andar.com/products/the-helm
If instead you sharpen the corners it's a security mechanism.
I would remove material from the outside edges of the front, not the center near the trackpad. The blue edges of my M2 air have already become silver and the palm rests have become more silver and glossy like glass from wear. I'm probably going to do something like this.
This seems like a reasonable choice, but man you really need to do this with a CNC mill. The craftsmanship is not there.
(author) If anyone around the Bay wants to let me use their CNC mill please reach out! I have lots of things to chamfer.
Here's what it looked like freshly after filing fyi: https://kentwalters.com/posts/public/IMG_7438.jpeg
Whats it look like closed?
That's like telling a punk to use a proper sewing machine for their jacket patches.
yay
I hate this But I also understand Still I hate this
i think its fine but why do such a shitty job
Can we get some pictures with the hinge closed?
I'm now painfully aware of how uncomfortable the edge of my mac is.
Not seriously... I too love the sharp edges but this is scary.. Lol
> I file the sharp corners off my MacBooks. People like to freak out about this
The fact that any conscious human being has the time or energy to be "freaked out" about someone futzing around with their own devices is astounding to me.
> Don't be scared. Fuck around a bit.
Damn good advice.
Apple users always convincing themselves they are still using the best premium most thought after designs of all time.
Honestly I love these things because they are so sturdy that you can do it. It’s like a slab of metal
I know people hate apple and I get it but like if you sign the pact with the devil you get many benefits from that ecosystem
Besides I can’t imagine going back to windows, I would have to use Linux. It wouldn’t be a tragedy alright but I am at the point where I like less customization and more the readiness and it just works aspect
I never found comfort in the endangered Linux ricing communities either that usually enriches the experience above just OS
> Don't be scared. Fuck around a bit.
Preach.
Looks terrible, I love it
I’m now wondering how difficult it would be to polish one to a mirror finish.
> Don't be scared. Fuck around a bit.
Bet this person never heard about FAFO
'a bit' is load-bearing
He hasn’t found out yet.
I think he filed edges too much that the font on the website is getting thinner. /s
I agree the edges _can_ be sharp, I have chosen to use a thin-plastic cover which also doubles as a sticker-holder. Also helps with the "bumps" and scratches...
One of the many first world problems of this century. /s
Meanwhile a very important object called "Orion CM-003 Integrity" of the Artemis II mission is about to splash-down on Earth in 35 mins.