Realistically, the best thing you can do to reduce your microplastics intake seems to be to avoid microwaving in plastic bowls and to avoid using plastic bottles for soft drinks and water. (Though cans actually use a thin film of plastic inside too.. so, maybe just avoid packaged water?)
Beyond your personal intake though there's bigger fish.
Car tyres are the #1 source for microplastics entering rivers, and it's not even close (they're thought to be the source of up to 85% of all environmental microplastics).
Those particulates don't just vanish, they end up in the soil and the waterways and it ends up inside you, no matter what you do.
Didnt know that we reached that level of degredation already! :-D
Another example comes to my mind: In lot of European conutries, at "cheese corner/bar" in the supermarket, every time a piece of cheese is cut, they are removing the foil, cutting the cheese, and then re-packing it in new foil after that - and this for every chees bar in every supermarket: How much kilometers does just one branch waste per year?
Yes I just mean the more expensive tea on the shelf. On cheaper SKUs they're trying to cut cost so they use normal tea bags. The plastic sachets were a trend for a couple years but hopefully most brands have switched away.
That study is interesting because they used SEM to image the plastic afterward, and you can see how the plastic surface has literally been torn up on a microscopic level simply by touching hot water.
Plastic has a low-energy surface, which means it doesn't take much energy to tear it apart. Even Brownian motion is enough, which is pretty wild.
Some people use plastic cutting-trays / knives / forks /spoons / cups / jugs, which also are some things to avoid.
I would also avoid all nonstick pans and utensils, as they're lined with PFAS which is worse than plastic, and slowly it will break off into the food. Beware the industry shills on this forum, as they will have you ignore the fact that ingesting PFAS is well known to result in higher blood levels of PFAS.
Fully agree with you, however eating small bits of PFAS from pans seems to be pretty non toxic.
Even in the recent Veritasium video about it they said that unless the chemical was heated to above ~300 degress C if will pass through the human digestive system without causing any harm.
the article lists several things including textiles, plastic packaging, and avoiding tyre particles. I led with containers/bottles because that's where the most concentrated single exposures seem to be (microwaving in plastic, bottled water), but you're right that textiles are up there too, especially for airborne microfibres.
The exposure from food packaging is many times more prominent than polyester, which slows down leeching over time.
The article focuses on the airways. The commenter probably takes more hollistic approach and you are gonna eat way more palstic in yoir life than you breathe in.
There’s a big difference between nanoplastics/chemical leeching (which is what happens with heated food containers) and microplastics of the sort that break off from clothing other plastic materials (which is what the article is talking about). Both are significant issues though.
So I boil my water (hoping it does something to all the mirco plastics, maybe make them lump together). Only just now did I think to check 'is my metal kettle lined with plastics'. And guess what...
Also, stop using dishwashing pods and laundry pods with the dissolvable plastic layer encasing them. Use powder or liquid detergent instead. If you can't find it in store, look for it online, because it definitely is in stock.
What amazes me about the plastic health debacle is that any rational decision making process would have identified these compounds as entirely novel, with no evolutionary correlate. The precautionary principle should have applied; the burden should have been on corporations to prove these compounds safe. Instead, they were incorrectly assumed to be safe, deployed at scale, and now the burden is on us to deal with the impacts.
This was an experiment run without consent, and without accountability. Much like our experiment with atmospheric CO2, these companies are making profits by dumping the liabilities onto the public.
Half the microplastics in our body is from cars. So move to a car-free city district or remote cabin (and then driving train+bike so not to contribute to the problem?).
Most of the bike chain lube at my local bike shop is basically just pure PFAS forever chemicals. Might as well cook with non-stick pans if you are applying chain lube to your bike at home.
The amount of damage to tires is proportional to the fourth power of the weight per axel. That means that for the same journey, a bike sheds (3000 kg / 80 kg)ˆ4 so about 20 million times less. Assuming that the rubber is the same—and not that it has proprietary chemistry that may or may not contain carcinogens. Eight orders of magnitude of difference feels relevant.
Almost every train I know use metal wheels. We can look at the few that don’t, but something tells me people who raise that argument don’t want to look at alternative wheel composition, but rather hope to seed doubt and, in private, lobby replace one metro with thousands of cars, and I’m not sure that’s a good idea.
So, please, don’t come in here with that bullshit.
I never mentioned train wheels at all. Their brake pads are made from things like carbon, ceramic, and resin compounds. These wear down like any brake pads and so cause the same dust pollution. Remember that some trains in the world are over a mile long and have over 1000 wheels.
I dont see anybody claiming that bikes or trains cause anywhere near the same level as cars, but it is important to remember that they still do cause some and so they are not a silver bullet. Solutions still need advancing in order to completely remove these pollutants from human transportation systems.
'Bikes cause it too' is technically true in the way that a dripping tap and a burst dam both cause flooding. The effect of this framing (intentional or not) is to suggest we shouldn't prioritise the thing that causes 99.99% of the problem until we've solved the thing that causes 0.01%. That's not a serious position, you're just protecting your comfort.
Bikes have tyre pollution, and trains have brake pollution. Seems like a pretty simple statement to me.
Interesting that you have moved from arguing the point into semantics now without addressing anything else. You are welcome to remove your downvotes.
People seem to get very upset when others point out that transport like bikes and trains still cause the same pollution as cars. yes it is much less, possibly orders of magnitude so, but they still cause it. Perhaps instead of getting the pitchforks out we could work together to find better wheel and brake solutions for all transpotation methods which dont cause so much toxic dust.
I would prefer to keep on topic and discuss the original points personally, but it seems people keep trying to derail into berating each other, commenting on peoples behavoir and pointing out forum rules. Seems strange to me but I get dragged in all the same.
Is it not factual that trains have brake pads which wear down and cause carcenogenic micro dust? Seems I made that factual point and it was ignored in favour of criticisizing my semantics and stating obvious site rules.
With cars there are higher energies involved, and things like that tend to grow with square or cube of the energy. I wouldn't be surprised if car was causing orders of magnitude more plastic pollution than a bike per person per mile.
It’s quite intuitive to think about. The entire tread of the tire becomes ground up plastic dust. Cars burn through significantly more KGs of tires in a year than a bicycle.
I wonder when and if microplastics will get it's Asbestos moment. Obviously they are not as carcinogenic, but it seems we don't have the full picture, and microplastics are present at an insanely higher degree than asbestos where.
Probably never. I think it's been at least a decade since the fear over them became mainstream. Yeah, it's possible these things can take time to show up but considering the scale of their presence and how long we have been using them, we would have at least seen some definite relationship between them and some serious health concern. Look at the article itself, the health impact is conveniently buried in the last section, and it just repeats over and over how they can found everywhere in the body but nothing on what can possible happen.
So much of the scare revolves around the same framing, "microplastic" have been found in breast milk/blood whatever, but never seen one mentioning what it can possibly cause. Is it too hard to fathom that the answer is "nothing"?
Not as long as there are powerful car lobbies and the main source of microplastic will remain car tires.
Instead, you have articles like this trying to tell people to look away from that main source of problem, and blame, say, indoors or food preparation, and skip details like how the homes with the most microplastic in them are… close to the highway.
Given the fact that they are so ubiquitous and yet no causal relation between microplastics and any health issue whatsoever has been identified in any rigorous study until today [1], I'd say a lot of this reporting is fear mongering by the eco/organic industry, aimed at gullible people who know very little about science. Not as insane and unphysical as electro smog, but definitely nowhere near asbestos. The linked article even goes into detail how warped the perceptions are among the general population and how doctors should educate people better, because there are real risks from other things out there. If you're really concerned about health effects of common pollutants, there are much bigger risks with actual proven causal effects in everyday compounds.
> BPA is a known endocrine disruptor. Although initially considered to be a weak environmental estrogen, more recent studies have demonstrated that BPA may be similar in potency to estradiol in stimulating some cellular responses.
> In 2017 the European Chemicals Agency concluded that BPA should be listed as a substance of very high concern due to its properties as an endocrine disruptor.[30] In 2023, the European Food Safety Authority re-evaluated the safety of BFA and significantly reduced tolerable daily intake (TDI) to 0.2 nanograms (0.2 billionths of a gram), 20,000 times lower than the previous TDI from 2015.
> In 2012, the United States' Food and Drug Administration (FDA) banned the use of BPA in baby bottles intended for children under 12 months.[31] The Natural Resources Defense Council called the move inadequate, saying the FDA needed to ban BPA from all food packaging.
> This followed another paper in early 2024, where a group of Italian researchers identified microplastics in plaques found in the carotid arteries – a pair of major vessels which deliver blood to the brain – of people with early-stage cardiovascular disease. This linked their presence to worsening disease progression. Over the following three years, individuals carrying these microplastics in their plaques had a 4.5-fold greater risk of stroke, heart attack or sudden death.
> Then in February 2025, another group of scientists identified microplastics in the brains of human cadavers. Most notably, those who had been diagnosed with dementia prior to their death had up to 10 times as much plastic in their brains compared to those without the condition. "We were shocked," says Matthew Campen, a University of New Mexico toxicology professor who led this study.
This is exactly the kind of fear mongering reporting I was talking about and explains the general public's warped perception described in the research review I linked above. If you look at the brains of dead people with dementia, you'll also find more aluminum, which has caused people to panic about antiperspirants. But there is zero actual causal evidence that Al exposure causes dementia, if you do the science right. The same goes btw. for amyloid plaques, which has actually hindered real Alzheimer's research. So not even scientists are safe from the correlation!=causality problem. You can make up all kinds of potential hazards by comparing similar molecules and inventing bioavailability pathways. But at the end of the day this is just speculation and you need hard data to prove these assumptions.
The aluminum relations are easily explained with the observation that healthy kidneys excrete aluminum well, whereas unhealthy kidneys don't and so it accumulates. There might also be similar variations in aluminum deposition in the brain depending on the brain's innate ability to wash out chemicals. In contrast, the excretory mechanisms of plastics seems less trustworthy.
The user is deliberately and blatantly ignoring a wealth of scientific literature that exists. Also, plastics come bundled with numerous other harmful classes of chemicals, e.g. phthalates, bisphenols, etc. The risk is not merely in the brain, but also in blood vessels, including those adjacent to the heart.
Beware the plastics industry shills on this page. They will have you ignore the science, become infertile, and then have you die, all for their temporary gain.
It doesn't change the fact that there is no actual causal evidence. Perhaps the demented brains simply suck at flushing out microplastics as well. If you ever find people with more microplastics exposure have more dementia (like they did for asbestos and lung cancer), then you're onto something. But no rigorous study has found this yet. And if they do, you will hear of it immediately for sure, given how much reporting there is for microplastics=bad for you.
This was in mice that were given up to 1000 mg/L of microplastics in their drinking water. If you have this level of contamination, you probably should stop whatever it is you are doing anyways, disregarding your testicles. But even then, there is no evidence for this in humans. Research shows that most microplastics simply passes through your digestive system unhindered.
Yeah, typically we test adverse effects in mice before doing trials on larger animals.
That we haven't observed such extreme behaviour in a scientific way in humans doesn't mean it isn't there, it's just that we haven't yet scientifically observed anything. That there is some evidence in favour of it having adverse effects somewhat defeats the idea that it's "provably non-harmful", which is your current stance.
It might be interesting; instead of downplaying the harm, to see if we can observe any patterns that fit with these findings over the course of human history with the introduction of microplastics...
and if we were to do that, we'd find some interesting correlation, even if it's not provably causation yet.
Sorry, I still subscribe to science and not speculation. But I guess I am increasingly alone with that idea on HN. And to be clear if someone points out a rigorous causal link, I'd be onboard immediately. But this purely speculative fear mongering based on random scientific observations targeted at non-scientists is similar to what you see in the homeopathy and energeticism circles. Except noone here would believe that 5G makes you sick, because techies know at least this kind of science a little bit.
Then please link to it. I'm still waiting for a causal health issue meta analysis that disagrees with me. Shouldn't be hard, if "the science" as you call it has come to a consensus. But I have only seen wild speculation so far like the one linked here.
- Microplastics found in every human testicle sampled, at 3x the concentration of dogs, with PVC correlating to lower sperm count in canines: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36948312/
- In-vitro exposure of human semen to polystyrene MPs showed time-dependent decline in motility and increased DNA fragmentation: https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/13/7/605
The mouse study I linked earlier isn't the whole picture; it's one piece. The "no human evidence" line was maybe defensible in 2022. It isn't anymore.
Also, re: "1000 mg/L is unrealistic".. the study used two doses, 100 μg/L and 1000 μg/L. Raw surface water in Amsterdam has been measured at ~50 μg/L. The lower experimental dose is well within an order of magnitude of real-world contamination. That's how dose-response science works.
You'll excuse me if I only explain the first one, since the others seem redundant (not to say suspiciously redundant if you look at the authors). And none of this is a meta review like I asked, but I'll let it slide this time.
First:
>no significant association was found between MP exposure and sperm concentration or total sperm count
Second: N=34
Third (if second didn't give it away): The one effect they did find sits at p=0.056. That means one in 18 random studies will find that effect just because of probability statistics. And as you have nicely pointed out, there are maaaany studies like this out there. You just don't find all the null results if you go into research with your mindset. But that is exactly what differentiates a scientist looking for truth from a hobbyist trying to argue on the internet.
It found microplastics caused a decrease of 5.99 million/mL in sperm concentration, 14.62% in sperm motility, 23.56% in sperm viability, and a 10.65% increase in sperm abnormality rate. (I copied and pasted these values directly from the source).
You said you'd be "onboard immediately" if someone showed you a rigorous causal link. This is a meta-analysis with an adverse outcome pathway mapping the causal chain from molecular initiating event (ROS) through to tissue-level damage. That's about as rigorous as it gets before human clinical trials, which (for obvious ethical reasons) nobody is going to run.
As for the p=0.056 critique: you picked the weakest single data point from one of four links and declared victory (scientific!). The in-vitro study I linked exposed actual human semen to microplastics under controlled conditions and observed time-dependent decline in motility and increased DNA fragmentation. That's not a simple correlation, it's a direct causal experiment on human tissue. You didn't address it.
The goalposts have moved from "show me evidence" to "show me a meta-review" to "well not THAT meta-review." At some point you have to engage with what the research actually says rather than with what you'd like it to say.
Doesn't this one directly contradict the other one you linked? What is it now? How is my sperm in danger!? Please Mr. Googlescienceman! Oh god! I'm so confused! I can't take it anymore. Please just tell me what brand of air filter and plastic free clothes I need to buy!! Perhaps I should ask the all mighty google AI overview...
Edit: Oh - lol XD. It literally just told me the science has found no causal link for microplastics harm. Hm. I guess you are just better at researching random studies than us mortals with stupid science degrees and hyped summary machines.
A single study with N=34 finding no significant effect on sperm count doesn't contradict a meta-analysis of 39 studies that did. That's what meta-analyses are for: aggregating underpowered individual studies into something statistically meaningful.
You know this if you have the science degree you're claiming.
As for Google AI Overview: if that's your standard of evidence now, we've come a long way from 'I subscribe to science.'
Saying HEPA filters remove "99%" of microplastic is pretty misleading.
Most of the mass in airborne particles is in the larger sizes of visible dust. However these particles will "fall out" before they reach the air purifier.
The best advice isn't "use only HEPA" or (an odd one, from this article) "use filters with multiple stages," it's to have an air purifier where the Clean Air Delivery Rate (CADR) is matched to room size. For filtering large dust you need a lot of air flow, aim for 6-8 Air Changes per Hour (ACH).
Also the CADR on the box is always on the highest fan speed, which is always way too loud for constant use in an occupied room. So ideally you want to size the air purifiers assuming a fan speed generating 45 decibels or less. HouseFresh is an excellent review site that publishes these numbers.
Most people dramatically undersize their air purifiers, or run them on a very low fan setting, and then they throw up their hands and say that air purifiers don't work.
You don't really want to use HEPA either, you want to maximize airflow.
PC fans with low MERV type filter do great since the smaller the particle (I think this effect kicks in below 5 microns) the better it is at filtering it so if it can pass 10 times more air than a hepa filter it's as effective as one while being able to filter more air faster and keeping the particles airbone.
The only downside is that small range of particles where lower merv filters aren't good enough to filter so upwards of 70% of the particles pass through
Agreed. MERV 11-14 can be far more effective than HEPA.
If you need to filter "one and done" (like pumping air into a hospital operating room), that's where you need HEPA. Most home air purifiers mix the clean air back into the same room, so MERV is closer to the ideal sweet spot.
It's also important to buy reputable brands of MERV filter, ideally ones which have a large number of folds (surface area) like the 3M 1900 MPR. In recent testing about half of filter brands scored well below their claimed MERV rating:
That sounds worth knowing; however when I looked MERV up, it seems that it's a rating system, not a type of filter. Could you be more specific abot the kind of filter you mean?
HEPA is typically just one type of filter with True HEPA as an offspring, MERV is a range which allows you to filter exactly what you need at the highest airflow. It really depends on what kind of pollution you have at your home.
If you just have a lot of dust then you want highest airflow possible (around MERV 9-10) if you want to filter things that cause allergies you need to go as high as MERV 14 since MERV 9-10 effectiveness is super low in that specific range.
> Most people dramatically under-size their air purifiers, or run them on a very low fan setting, and then they throw up their hands and just say that air purifiers don't work.
I believe something is better than nothing here. One of the biggest complaints against air filters is noise so maybe a good compromise would be to run them at full speed and full noise for a certain amount of time or something when nobody is in the room?
A false sense of security can be worse than nothing, because it prevents you from seeking out actually effective options.
I too would like such a "shy" air purifier, but manufacturers always seem to go the other way: when occupancy is detected they increase the fan speed.
Best option IMO is just to get an air purifier with a good CADR-to-decibel ratio and then (again) size it correctly. A surprisingly good option is something called the Airfanta 3 Pro, which is basically like those wildfire filter boxes except it uses PC fans.
The way to get air purifiers to really work well is to install them at the air intake, i.e. in the windows, or where the central air intake is, so all incoming air passes through them. I use indoor air purifiers too, but not as a substitute for ones at the intake. Note that tires and diesel fumes are prominent neighborhood sources of harmful particulates.
It is not expensive to run intake fans in the spring and fall seasons when active heating or cooling are not required.
That helps for pollution that comes from outside (traffic, pollen, wood smoke), but most of the microplastics are generated by moving/wearing synthetic textiles inside the home.
Positive pressure systems are great, love 'em, but there's a quantitative mismatch in this case. Above ~1 ACH your HVAC costs will go through the roof (even with heat/humidity recovery), but for effective filtration you need 6-8 ACH to catch the larger dust before your lungs do.
The therm "microplactics" includes particles up to 5mm. And I think the bulk of the material is probably made of these larger particles. But I guess you're less likely to inhale something that large. So while air filters will remove most of the plastic you might inhale, you will still have to clean up most of the mass of microplastics in your house.
I wonder if this means that going to the gym is a huge source of exposure then. Enclosed environment with rubber mat flooring and weights constantly banging against it..
If anyone is looking into getting an air filter I recommend winix it was tested by project farm and scored the highest. also I am the owner of two and they've been working great for 4 years now I run them using auto and never worry about them again, the automatic sleep mode is bliss.
replacements are cheap on aliexpress coming at around $30 (per year). You don't need true hepa replacements, you can skip carbon filters if you don't have odor problems or have lots of ventilation.
the filters are pitch black every time I replace them so they're definitely doing something.
I do however recommend skipping all of that and just getting a box fan with a lower-tier merv filter since at the end of the day airflow matters the most and it turns itself back on if the power goes out plus it gives you the ability to tie it into home automation.
Classic case of PR leveraging a real, anecdotic observation on one single result, but completely flipping it to pretend it’s a systematic result, to saw doubt on all scientific findings around microplastic. The same companies behind this last story have done the same thing to slow down regulation to limit the impact of smoking, alcohol, processed foods, oil refinery, global warming, lead pipes…
I wish the millions of people killed by delaying safety legislation for decades knew that pretending to make jokes (what became known as the "stochastic asshole" approach) was also a common tactic taught by those PR firms, to make critics sound like sour-puss.
Do you know what a "useful idiot" is, in the Soviet manipulation tradecraft?
Someone who repeats, jokingly or not, an argument that was placed somewhere deniable. One lab, looking at a small study, published a correction saying their estimates were wrong because they didn’t realize how their gloves accounted for it. Do you know who knew about that? Every intern in every lab ever. This was a minor correction that should never has reached anyone except the 10 readers of their original report.
But, strangely, that story got a wide coverage in the press: the usual “science” publication, the trade press, even widespread media. Why? Because it was presented as a “They are making things up about micro-plastics” piece, and those can go really far. And that kind of coverage doesn’t happen by accident.
So no, I don’t think you did that deliberately. But I know you read about it recently; I know you didn’t check what that original story was that triggered the coverage; I know you found that quaint—and I have no reason to think you deliberately tried to spread misinformation. But, you did. Because the people who want to sow doubt know what they are doing.
Indoor air has way less particulates than outside air. I'll take polipropylene dust over rubber and silicw dust and chimney and tailpipe exhaust any day of the week.
Realistically, the best thing you can do to reduce your microplastics intake seems to be to avoid microwaving in plastic bowls and to avoid using plastic bottles for soft drinks and water. (Though cans actually use a thin film of plastic inside too.. so, maybe just avoid packaged water?)
Beyond your personal intake though there's bigger fish.
Car tyres are the #1 source for microplastics entering rivers, and it's not even close (they're thought to be the source of up to 85% of all environmental microplastics).
Those particulates don't just vanish, they end up in the soil and the waterways and it ends up inside you, no matter what you do.
For instance the same thing happens with plastic tea bags in hot water: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004565352...
Wait, WHAT?
There are _plastic_ tea bags? Really?
Didnt know that we reached that level of degredation already! :-D
Another example comes to my mind: In lot of European conutries, at "cheese corner/bar" in the supermarket, every time a piece of cheese is cut, they are removing the foil, cutting the cheese, and then re-packing it in new foil after that - and this for every chees bar in every supermarket: How much kilometers does just one branch waste per year?
The kicker? It's only on high-end tea, because it's more expensive than regular tea bags.
Curious: What is "high end tea"? Or is this just another wording for "premium-markup" which makes a product more expensive?
Yes I just mean the more expensive tea on the shelf. On cheaper SKUs they're trying to cut cost so they use normal tea bags. The plastic sachets were a trend for a couple years but hopefully most brands have switched away.
That study is interesting because they used SEM to image the plastic afterward, and you can see how the plastic surface has literally been torn up on a microscopic level simply by touching hot water.
Plastic has a low-energy surface, which means it doesn't take much energy to tear it apart. Even Brownian motion is enough, which is pretty wild.
Thanks for threwing this ball, so let me ask:
Is there any real difference between the more expensive shelf places ("on eye height") than the more cheap one?
Id suspect its just intelligent re-labelling/re-packing for different brands?
Or is there really a difference in the quality/taste of the expensive ones?
In my country, it doesnt matter if i spend 2 bucks or 5 bucks in the supermarket
all the high end tea bags I've seen are silk
Some people use plastic cutting-trays / knives / forks /spoons / cups / jugs, which also are some things to avoid.
I would also avoid all nonstick pans and utensils, as they're lined with PFAS which is worse than plastic, and slowly it will break off into the food. Beware the industry shills on this forum, as they will have you ignore the fact that ingesting PFAS is well known to result in higher blood levels of PFAS.
Fully agree with you, however eating small bits of PFAS from pans seems to be pretty non toxic.
Even in the recent Veritasium video about it they said that unless the chemical was heated to above ~300 degress C if will pass through the human digestive system without causing any harm.
https://youtu.be/SC2eSujzrUY
Curious why you say this when the linked article says the best thing you can do is avoid synthetic textiles
the article lists several things including textiles, plastic packaging, and avoiding tyre particles. I led with containers/bottles because that's where the most concentrated single exposures seem to be (microwaving in plastic, bottled water), but you're right that textiles are up there too, especially for airborne microfibres.
The exposure from food packaging is many times more prominent than polyester, which slows down leeching over time.
The article focuses on the airways. The commenter probably takes more hollistic approach and you are gonna eat way more palstic in yoir life than you breathe in.
There’s a big difference between nanoplastics/chemical leeching (which is what happens with heated food containers) and microplastics of the sort that break off from clothing other plastic materials (which is what the article is talking about). Both are significant issues though.
So I boil my water (hoping it does something to all the mirco plastics, maybe make them lump together). Only just now did I think to check 'is my metal kettle lined with plastics'. And guess what...
The modern world is exhausting sometimes.
One action doesn't obviate the need for another.
Also, stop using dishwashing pods and laundry pods with the dissolvable plastic layer encasing them. Use powder or liquid detergent instead. If you can't find it in store, look for it online, because it definitely is in stock.
Where I live it has become almost impossible to find powdered dish detergent. Everything is the pods.
The article says this is probably wrong. We breathe in much more.
What amazes me about the plastic health debacle is that any rational decision making process would have identified these compounds as entirely novel, with no evolutionary correlate. The precautionary principle should have applied; the burden should have been on corporations to prove these compounds safe. Instead, they were incorrectly assumed to be safe, deployed at scale, and now the burden is on us to deal with the impacts.
This was an experiment run without consent, and without accountability. Much like our experiment with atmospheric CO2, these companies are making profits by dumping the liabilities onto the public.
Half the microplastics in our body is from cars. So move to a car-free city district or remote cabin (and then driving train+bike so not to contribute to the problem?).
The silence from that from media that make a lot of money selling ads for cars is becoming quite suspicious.
If cars are causing microplastic pollution, Im sure bikes and trains are too.
Im seems using rubber/plastic compounds for tyres and brakes is always going to cause this issue on any vehicle.
Most of the bike chain lube at my local bike shop is basically just pure PFAS forever chemicals. Might as well cook with non-stick pans if you are applying chain lube to your bike at home.
The amount of damage to tires is proportional to the fourth power of the weight per axel. That means that for the same journey, a bike sheds (3000 kg / 80 kg)ˆ4 so about 20 million times less. Assuming that the rubber is the same—and not that it has proprietary chemistry that may or may not contain carcinogens. Eight orders of magnitude of difference feels relevant.
Almost every train I know use metal wheels. We can look at the few that don’t, but something tells me people who raise that argument don’t want to look at alternative wheel composition, but rather hope to seed doubt and, in private, lobby replace one metro with thousands of cars, and I’m not sure that’s a good idea.
So, please, don’t come in here with that bullshit.
Lovely tone, you sound like a really nice person.
I never mentioned train wheels at all. Their brake pads are made from things like carbon, ceramic, and resin compounds. These wear down like any brake pads and so cause the same dust pollution. Remember that some trains in the world are over a mile long and have over 1000 wheels.
I dont see anybody claiming that bikes or trains cause anywhere near the same level as cars, but it is important to remember that they still do cause some and so they are not a silver bullet. Solutions still need advancing in order to completely remove these pollutants from human transportation systems.
'Bikes cause it too' is technically true in the way that a dripping tap and a burst dam both cause flooding. The effect of this framing (intentional or not) is to suggest we shouldn't prioritise the thing that causes 99.99% of the problem until we've solved the thing that causes 0.01%. That's not a serious position, you're just protecting your comfort.
Have you ever seen the damage a dripping tap can do? I have seen houses completely wrecked by it.
Stop protecting your argument by trying to say something small doesnt matter. It all matters, regardless of size.
If the argument is that microplastics are harmful to health, surely we should be looking at all sources of them instead of just the biggest?
My argument is 'Lets try to make all vehicle tyres and brakes from something that doesnt pollute the earth and harm animal life on it.'
Yours seems to be 'Lets ignore the plastic pollution from other transport because cars cause the most, so thats all we need to worry about.'
> Im sure bikes and trains are too. > … for tyres and brakes
You are welcome to edit your comment to clarify.
No need, it is correct.
Bikes have tyre pollution, and trains have brake pollution. Seems like a pretty simple statement to me.
Interesting that you have moved from arguing the point into semantics now without addressing anything else. You are welcome to remove your downvotes.
People seem to get very upset when others point out that transport like bikes and trains still cause the same pollution as cars. yes it is much less, possibly orders of magnitude so, but they still cause it. Perhaps instead of getting the pitchforks out we could work together to find better wheel and brake solutions for all transpotation methods which dont cause so much toxic dust.
You can't downvote direct replies.
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You really don’t like factual replies, do you?
I would prefer to keep on topic and discuss the original points personally, but it seems people keep trying to derail into berating each other, commenting on peoples behavoir and pointing out forum rules. Seems strange to me but I get dragged in all the same.
Is it not factual that trains have brake pads which wear down and cause carcenogenic micro dust? Seems I made that factual point and it was ignored in favour of criticisizing my semantics and stating obvious site rules.
With cars there are higher energies involved, and things like that tend to grow with square or cube of the energy. I wouldn't be surprised if car was causing orders of magnitude more plastic pollution than a bike per person per mile.
It’s quite intuitive to think about. The entire tread of the tire becomes ground up plastic dust. Cars burn through significantly more KGs of tires in a year than a bicycle.
Thats obvious and goes without saying, but then I didnt state any specific metrics, only that they both casue the same thing even in different amounts
I wonder when and if microplastics will get it's Asbestos moment. Obviously they are not as carcinogenic, but it seems we don't have the full picture, and microplastics are present at an insanely higher degree than asbestos where.
Probably never. I think it's been at least a decade since the fear over them became mainstream. Yeah, it's possible these things can take time to show up but considering the scale of their presence and how long we have been using them, we would have at least seen some definite relationship between them and some serious health concern. Look at the article itself, the health impact is conveniently buried in the last section, and it just repeats over and over how they can found everywhere in the body but nothing on what can possible happen.
So much of the scare revolves around the same framing, "microplastic" have been found in breast milk/blood whatever, but never seen one mentioning what it can possibly cause. Is it too hard to fathom that the answer is "nothing"?
TV ads 20 years from now: "If you or a family member have suffered from Spandex Kidney, you may be entitled to compensation..."
Not as long as there are powerful car lobbies and the main source of microplastic will remain car tires.
Instead, you have articles like this trying to tell people to look away from that main source of problem, and blame, say, indoors or food preparation, and skip details like how the homes with the most microplastic in them are… close to the highway.
Given the fact that they are so ubiquitous and yet no causal relation between microplastics and any health issue whatsoever has been identified in any rigorous study until today [1], I'd say a lot of this reporting is fear mongering by the eco/organic industry, aimed at gullible people who know very little about science. Not as insane and unphysical as electro smog, but definitely nowhere near asbestos. The linked article even goes into detail how warped the perceptions are among the general population and how doctors should educate people better, because there are real risks from other things out there. If you're really concerned about health effects of common pollutants, there are much bigger risks with actual proven causal effects in everyday compounds.
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12620896/
> BPA is a known endocrine disruptor. Although initially considered to be a weak environmental estrogen, more recent studies have demonstrated that BPA may be similar in potency to estradiol in stimulating some cellular responses.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21605673/
> In 2017 the European Chemicals Agency concluded that BPA should be listed as a substance of very high concern due to its properties as an endocrine disruptor.[30] In 2023, the European Food Safety Authority re-evaluated the safety of BFA and significantly reduced tolerable daily intake (TDI) to 0.2 nanograms (0.2 billionths of a gram), 20,000 times lower than the previous TDI from 2015.
> In 2012, the United States' Food and Drug Administration (FDA) banned the use of BPA in baby bottles intended for children under 12 months.[31] The Natural Resources Defense Council called the move inadequate, saying the FDA needed to ban BPA from all food packaging.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_Bisphenol_A
> This followed another paper in early 2024, where a group of Italian researchers identified microplastics in plaques found in the carotid arteries – a pair of major vessels which deliver blood to the brain – of people with early-stage cardiovascular disease. This linked their presence to worsening disease progression. Over the following three years, individuals carrying these microplastics in their plaques had a 4.5-fold greater risk of stroke, heart attack or sudden death.
> Then in February 2025, another group of scientists identified microplastics in the brains of human cadavers. Most notably, those who had been diagnosed with dementia prior to their death had up to 10 times as much plastic in their brains compared to those without the condition. "We were shocked," says Matthew Campen, a University of New Mexico toxicology professor who led this study.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20250723-how-do-the-mic...
This is exactly the kind of fear mongering reporting I was talking about and explains the general public's warped perception described in the research review I linked above. If you look at the brains of dead people with dementia, you'll also find more aluminum, which has caused people to panic about antiperspirants. But there is zero actual causal evidence that Al exposure causes dementia, if you do the science right. The same goes btw. for amyloid plaques, which has actually hindered real Alzheimer's research. So not even scientists are safe from the correlation!=causality problem. You can make up all kinds of potential hazards by comparing similar molecules and inventing bioavailability pathways. But at the end of the day this is just speculation and you need hard data to prove these assumptions.
The aluminum relations are easily explained with the observation that healthy kidneys excrete aluminum well, whereas unhealthy kidneys don't and so it accumulates. There might also be similar variations in aluminum deposition in the brain depending on the brain's innate ability to wash out chemicals. In contrast, the excretory mechanisms of plastics seems less trustworthy.
The user is deliberately and blatantly ignoring a wealth of scientific literature that exists. Also, plastics come bundled with numerous other harmful classes of chemicals, e.g. phthalates, bisphenols, etc. The risk is not merely in the brain, but also in blood vessels, including those adjacent to the heart.
Beware the plastics industry shills on this page. They will have you ignore the science, become infertile, and then have you die, all for their temporary gain.
It doesn't change the fact that there is no actual causal evidence. Perhaps the demented brains simply suck at flushing out microplastics as well. If you ever find people with more microplastics exposure have more dementia (like they did for asbestos and lung cancer), then you're onto something. But no rigorous study has found this yet. And if they do, you will hear of it immediately for sure, given how much reporting there is for microplastics=bad for you.
I wonder when celulose and silica will get their microplastics moment and it turns out we were always full of micro garbage.
I think microplastics has been directly linked to the decrease of male hormones and an sperm quality.
source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12989-022-00453-2
So, it's having an effect of some kind.
This was in mice that were given up to 1000 mg/L of microplastics in their drinking water. If you have this level of contamination, you probably should stop whatever it is you are doing anyways, disregarding your testicles. But even then, there is no evidence for this in humans. Research shows that most microplastics simply passes through your digestive system unhindered.
Yeah, typically we test adverse effects in mice before doing trials on larger animals.
That we haven't observed such extreme behaviour in a scientific way in humans doesn't mean it isn't there, it's just that we haven't yet scientifically observed anything. That there is some evidence in favour of it having adverse effects somewhat defeats the idea that it's "provably non-harmful", which is your current stance.
It might be interesting; instead of downplaying the harm, to see if we can observe any patterns that fit with these findings over the course of human history with the introduction of microplastics...
and if we were to do that, we'd find some interesting correlation, even if it's not provably causation yet.
https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20120325/generatio...
We also know that plastics are a source of hormone disrupting chemicals; https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-environmental-toxins-...
Bury your head I guess? Just make sure it's not a polyester pillowcase.
Sorry, I still subscribe to science and not speculation. But I guess I am increasingly alone with that idea on HN. And to be clear if someone points out a rigorous causal link, I'd be onboard immediately. But this purely speculative fear mongering based on random scientific observations targeted at non-scientists is similar to what you see in the homeopathy and energeticism circles. Except noone here would believe that 5G makes you sick, because techies know at least this kind of science a little bit.
The science disagrees with your hypothesis that "provably, nothing is the matter".
Then please link to it. I'm still waiting for a causal health issue meta analysis that disagrees with me. Shouldn't be hard, if "the science" as you call it has come to a consensus. But I have only seen wild speculation so far like the one linked here.
Sure. Here's a few:
- Microplastics found in 76% of human semen samples, with PET-exposed men showing reduced sperm motility: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12299061/
- Multi-site study across China (113 men), PTFE microplastics linked to sperm dysfunction (published in eBioMedicine/Lancet): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-39...
- Microplastics found in every human testicle sampled, at 3x the concentration of dogs, with PVC correlating to lower sperm count in canines: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36948312/
- In-vitro exposure of human semen to polystyrene MPs showed time-dependent decline in motility and increased DNA fragmentation: https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/13/7/605
The mouse study I linked earlier isn't the whole picture; it's one piece. The "no human evidence" line was maybe defensible in 2022. It isn't anymore.
Also, re: "1000 mg/L is unrealistic".. the study used two doses, 100 μg/L and 1000 μg/L. Raw surface water in Amsterdam has been measured at ~50 μg/L. The lower experimental dose is well within an order of magnitude of real-world contamination. That's how dose-response science works.
Comparing this to homeopathy is… a choice.
You'll excuse me if I only explain the first one, since the others seem redundant (not to say suspiciously redundant if you look at the authors). And none of this is a meta review like I asked, but I'll let it slide this time.
First:
>no significant association was found between MP exposure and sperm concentration or total sperm count
Second: N=34
Third (if second didn't give it away): The one effect they did find sits at p=0.056. That means one in 18 random studies will find that effect just because of probability statistics. And as you have nicely pointed out, there are maaaany studies like this out there. You just don't find all the null results if you go into research with your mindset. But that is exactly what differentiates a scientist looking for truth from a hobbyist trying to argue on the internet.
You asked for a meta-analysis. Here's one: 39 studies, published in the Journal of Hazardous Materials:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03043...
It found microplastics caused a decrease of 5.99 million/mL in sperm concentration, 14.62% in sperm motility, 23.56% in sperm viability, and a 10.65% increase in sperm abnormality rate. (I copied and pasted these values directly from the source).
You said you'd be "onboard immediately" if someone showed you a rigorous causal link. This is a meta-analysis with an adverse outcome pathway mapping the causal chain from molecular initiating event (ROS) through to tissue-level damage. That's about as rigorous as it gets before human clinical trials, which (for obvious ethical reasons) nobody is going to run.
As for the p=0.056 critique: you picked the weakest single data point from one of four links and declared victory (scientific!). The in-vitro study I linked exposed actual human semen to microplastics under controlled conditions and observed time-dependent decline in motility and increased DNA fragmentation. That's not a simple correlation, it's a direct causal experiment on human tissue. You didn't address it.
The goalposts have moved from "show me evidence" to "show me a meta-review" to "well not THAT meta-review." At some point you have to engage with what the research actually says rather than with what you'd like it to say.
Doesn't this one directly contradict the other one you linked? What is it now? How is my sperm in danger!? Please Mr. Googlescienceman! Oh god! I'm so confused! I can't take it anymore. Please just tell me what brand of air filter and plastic free clothes I need to buy!! Perhaps I should ask the all mighty google AI overview...
Edit: Oh - lol XD. It literally just told me the science has found no causal link for microplastics harm. Hm. I guess you are just better at researching random studies than us mortals with stupid science degrees and hyped summary machines.
A single study with N=34 finding no significant effect on sperm count doesn't contradict a meta-analysis of 39 studies that did. That's what meta-analyses are for: aggregating underpowered individual studies into something statistically meaningful.
You know this if you have the science degree you're claiming.
As for Google AI Overview: if that's your standard of evidence now, we've come a long way from 'I subscribe to science.'
https://archive.ph/UcCq6
Saying HEPA filters remove "99%" of microplastic is pretty misleading.
Most of the mass in airborne particles is in the larger sizes of visible dust. However these particles will "fall out" before they reach the air purifier.
The best advice isn't "use only HEPA" or (an odd one, from this article) "use filters with multiple stages," it's to have an air purifier where the Clean Air Delivery Rate (CADR) is matched to room size. For filtering large dust you need a lot of air flow, aim for 6-8 Air Changes per Hour (ACH).
Also the CADR on the box is always on the highest fan speed, which is always way too loud for constant use in an occupied room. So ideally you want to size the air purifiers assuming a fan speed generating 45 decibels or less. HouseFresh is an excellent review site that publishes these numbers.
Most people dramatically undersize their air purifiers, or run them on a very low fan setting, and then they throw up their hands and say that air purifiers don't work.
You don't really want to use HEPA either, you want to maximize airflow.
PC fans with low MERV type filter do great since the smaller the particle (I think this effect kicks in below 5 microns) the better it is at filtering it so if it can pass 10 times more air than a hepa filter it's as effective as one while being able to filter more air faster and keeping the particles airbone.
The only downside is that small range of particles where lower merv filters aren't good enough to filter so upwards of 70% of the particles pass through
Agreed. MERV 11-14 can be far more effective than HEPA.
If you need to filter "one and done" (like pumping air into a hospital operating room), that's where you need HEPA. Most home air purifiers mix the clean air back into the same room, so MERV is closer to the ideal sweet spot.
It's also important to buy reputable brands of MERV filter, ideally ones which have a large number of folds (surface area) like the 3M 1900 MPR. In recent testing about half of filter brands scored well below their claimed MERV rating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAVek1YaSQ
That sounds worth knowing; however when I looked MERV up, it seems that it's a rating system, not a type of filter. Could you be more specific abot the kind of filter you mean?
HEPA is typically just one type of filter with True HEPA as an offspring, MERV is a range which allows you to filter exactly what you need at the highest airflow. It really depends on what kind of pollution you have at your home.
If you just have a lot of dust then you want highest airflow possible (around MERV 9-10) if you want to filter things that cause allergies you need to go as high as MERV 14 since MERV 9-10 effectiveness is super low in that specific range.
> Most people dramatically under-size their air purifiers, or run them on a very low fan setting, and then they throw up their hands and just say that air purifiers don't work.
I believe something is better than nothing here. One of the biggest complaints against air filters is noise so maybe a good compromise would be to run them at full speed and full noise for a certain amount of time or something when nobody is in the room?
A false sense of security can be worse than nothing, because it prevents you from seeking out actually effective options.
I too would like such a "shy" air purifier, but manufacturers always seem to go the other way: when occupancy is detected they increase the fan speed.
Best option IMO is just to get an air purifier with a good CADR-to-decibel ratio and then (again) size it correctly. A surprisingly good option is something called the Airfanta 3 Pro, which is basically like those wildfire filter boxes except it uses PC fans.
bigger filter = less noise to move more air
The way to get air purifiers to really work well is to install them at the air intake, i.e. in the windows, or where the central air intake is, so all incoming air passes through them. I use indoor air purifiers too, but not as a substitute for ones at the intake. Note that tires and diesel fumes are prominent neighborhood sources of harmful particulates.
It is not expensive to run intake fans in the spring and fall seasons when active heating or cooling are not required.
That helps for pollution that comes from outside (traffic, pollen, wood smoke), but most of the microplastics are generated by moving/wearing synthetic textiles inside the home.
Positive pressure systems are great, love 'em, but there's a quantitative mismatch in this case. Above ~1 ACH your HVAC costs will go through the roof (even with heat/humidity recovery), but for effective filtration you need 6-8 ACH to catch the larger dust before your lungs do.
And for pm2.5, at least in Australia, it’s entirely generated from cooking. Outside air is very clean.
The therm "microplactics" includes particles up to 5mm. And I think the bulk of the material is probably made of these larger particles. But I guess you're less likely to inhale something that large. So while air filters will remove most of the plastic you might inhale, you will still have to clean up most of the mass of microplastics in your house.
I wonder if this means that going to the gym is a huge source of exposure then. Enclosed environment with rubber mat flooring and weights constantly banging against it..
IIRC there was a study that concluded that boulder gyms have more rubber in the air than exits of motorways.
Is there a brand that makes pullovers / hoodies, that are made 100% from natural materials?
If anyone is looking into getting an air filter I recommend winix it was tested by project farm and scored the highest. also I am the owner of two and they've been working great for 4 years now I run them using auto and never worry about them again, the automatic sleep mode is bliss.
replacements are cheap on aliexpress coming at around $30 (per year). You don't need true hepa replacements, you can skip carbon filters if you don't have odor problems or have lots of ventilation.
the filters are pitch black every time I replace them so they're definitely doing something.
I do however recommend skipping all of that and just getting a box fan with a lower-tier merv filter since at the end of the day airflow matters the most and it turns itself back on if the power goes out plus it gives you the ability to tie it into home automation.
I've heard that removing latex gloves when breathing might help...
Classic case of PR leveraging a real, anecdotic observation on one single result, but completely flipping it to pretend it’s a systematic result, to saw doubt on all scientific findings around microplastic. The same companies behind this last story have done the same thing to slow down regulation to limit the impact of smoking, alcohol, processed foods, oil refinery, global warming, lead pipes…
... or just a benign joke. Not everything is that serious, you know...
I wish the millions of people killed by delaying safety legislation for decades knew that pretending to make jokes (what became known as the "stochastic asshole" approach) was also a common tactic taught by those PR firms, to make critics sound like sour-puss.
Whatever deamons you're fighting, they are not here in the room with us, friend. Be well.
Do you know what a "useful idiot" is, in the Soviet manipulation tradecraft?
Someone who repeats, jokingly or not, an argument that was placed somewhere deniable. One lab, looking at a small study, published a correction saying their estimates were wrong because they didn’t realize how their gloves accounted for it. Do you know who knew about that? Every intern in every lab ever. This was a minor correction that should never has reached anyone except the 10 readers of their original report.
But, strangely, that story got a wide coverage in the press: the usual “science” publication, the trade press, even widespread media. Why? Because it was presented as a “They are making things up about micro-plastics” piece, and those can go really far. And that kind of coverage doesn’t happen by accident.
So no, I don’t think you did that deliberately. But I know you read about it recently; I know you didn’t check what that original story was that triggered the coverage; I know you found that quaint—and I have no reason to think you deliberately tried to spread misinformation. But, you did. Because the people who want to sow doubt know what they are doing.
Indoor air has way less particulates than outside air. I'll take polipropylene dust over rubber and silicw dust and chimney and tailpipe exhaust any day of the week.
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