The corollary of this is that if you are a local you should do some more touristy things.
I don't mean to go to a tourist trap and get scammed, but just enjoy your city a little more and do some things that usually only tourists do.
For example, despite living most of my life in London, I've never been to the Tower of London. Why would I? It's for tourists. Except it's probably quite fascinating, especially for a local.
Where you can discover places near you and connect to their history, I have also added some check-in mechanics and quiz to gaming the experience and for to actually go see the place in person.
I’m routinely surprised by native San Franciscans who’ve never been to Alcatraz, seen Pier 39, or gone whale watching. Yes, they’re touristy things to do. They’re also very interesting and lots of fun!
I finally went to Alcatraz after years where I've either lived in SF or visited for work. It was worth spending some time out there! Great views as well.
Agreed! I routinely cycle around the city and one of my favorite loops is along the Embarcadero and up through Pier 39 and Fisherman’s Wharf.
We live in a beautiful city that people come from all over to see and there are good reasons for that. I’ll also offer to take pictures of families taking their photos with the sea lions (which I also always stop to watch) and chat them up a bit. Fun times.
As a fellow Londoner I can confirm it's worth visiting and the crown jewels are also nicely presented. Don't be fooled into queueing for the bloody tower torture chamber, anything you can see seemed to be a Victorian fantasy.
They have been fracking oil like 15 minutes walk from my previous house since 1986… I just found out after seeing a curious sign on a fence around a pretty secluded terrain when taking a stroll. It only became public knowledge a year or so ago when the government announced publicly that they would continue operations for another x years. Protests are still ongoing. Take more local strolls!
I live in the DC area and it is kind of sad that a lot of people here haven't been to the various Smithsonian museums (which are free) here, or haven't been since they were children.
100%. I've lived in Paris well over a year and finally walked up on the Eiffel Tower and I enjoyed it. But of course not in July or August! But being local means you can go on an unexpectedly sunny March weekend.
The title is a non sequitur from the argument. The point is not to ask for a "bring a non-local to work day" where you tag along to a rando doing their normal routine.
The thing that locals do know a lot of the time, is the spots that are actually great but not hyped up by influencers/social media, the cool spots that are often good by virtue of not being well known, etc. And no one is arguing that the locals know all the best cultural attractions, the point of asking locals for advice is to understand what they see in their own city.
This is where platforms like Couchers.org or whatever come up, where you want to actually understand the locals, more than just see the hyped up touristy stuff (which often can also be phenomenal!).
The advice isn't to literally live a life in the day of a local, it's to ask the locals what the interesting things to do are. Nobody is actually suggesting that you go hang out at an office for 8 hours, stop by an affordable grocery store and then watch Netflix.
E.G. People in Seattle will not tell you to go to the space needle or to Pike Place Market (at best you might hear that you should go at least once). They will tell you to ride a bike from Lake Union to the Locks on a sunny day, and you will have more fun and see more than fighting the crowds at Pike Place.
One phenomenon I noticed is that unpaid things (even if they're world class museums) often get left in the shadow of others that sell tickets - these get packaged in "city pass" cards, etc. and get more exposure from their selling.
I live in a tourist town. 3000 residents, 4 million visitors each year. And I'm just fine with the tourists not going to the places I go - we tend to like the quieter, more affordable places vs. the big fancy price-gouging places. But assuming that us "locals" just sit at home and do nothing is such an unfair and inaccurate assessment. Why would I want to live in a town as crazy as this if I did nothing here?
I enjoy having a vast variety of restaurants and activities that I otherwise would not have in a small town in the Midwest. The roads are well maintained, we have more parks than we otherwise would, there are trails, rivers, and tons of activities. We don't spend all our time partaking of the tourist activities, but we abso-freaking-lutely spend some time enjoying what the town has to offer.
It is obvious that "do what the locals do" should not be taken literally, because locals are likely working most of the day. So the authors actual advice seems to be "avoid what the locals do, when they don't want to do anything". Everyone else likely interprets it as "do what the locals do, when they want to have fun" which is good advice.
My daily routines are of no interest to tourist. They are probably similar to their own routines at home anyway. When I got out on the weekends it can get wild though and I'd wager it's exactly what many tourists are looking for.
Yeah, I felt this was obvious as well. I like to "do what the locals do" when I travel, but by that I don't mean work during the weekdays of my vacation or spring clean an apartment. And if I say "do what the locals do" no one else would think I mean that I worked or did house chores.
The locals are living their lives on an organic cadence. They're not maximizing entertainment value or whatever. They will certainly know entertaining things to do, but it's literally not their job to entertain tourists. Maybe seeking out a Disneyland like experience in someone else's home is the problem? Bourdain, Rick Steves, et al. are fun to watch, but I can't help but feel they've actually made the world a worse place by romanticizing tourism. There are many sayings about how travel reduces prejudice... but if you actually look at it at scale, it's almost always a global negative.
While the folks like Bourdain did romanticize tourism, and TV shows are known to regularly kill businesses that don't know how to manage the increase in customers, they did at least project the proper attitude of embracing the differences in other cultures when they traveled to places.
The current issues with tourism are significantly more to do with "influencers" and social media. Many places are overrun by people that are just there to get their photos and have zero interest in engaging with the culture or treating locals with respect.
Its shocking how different some places have gotten due to "influencers". Last year I was in Kuala Lumpur for a few days and took the person I was with to a bunch of the places I had visited when I was there a decade ago. It struck me when walking around a couple places that there are photos I took during my first trip that would simply be impossible to get today because of the number of people in the way.
Locals trend conservative, always giving the advice "don't do that, you'll definitely die" because they remember one bad incident 10 or 20 years ago and never clock how circumstances have changed. My favorite is the time I was warned over and over by several different people about not going somewhere because I would surely be killed by foreigners or wolves. Dude, what? If there was a major problem with one, it would scare off the other. Are they working together?? lol
well that's not always the case - I live in place where you can jog with earphones at 2AM and only worry about drunk drivers (very rare)
as a local, there was a lot of places that are "visible to foreigners but invisible to locals" -- cafes/view spots/hipster-places that only advertises to foreigners (they didn't even have signboards)
I learnt about those places when some foreign friends took me there
My best travel advice (for urban areas) is simple: get lost. If you don't know exactly where you are or what's around the corner, you've got to take it as it comes, and that makes it all the more interesting. No FOMO or opportunity cost struggles, just what's in front of you right now.
This is both easier and harder with smartphones and GPS. Harder because, well, you know exactly where you are and have to actively ignore the phone. Easier because when you're ready to be done, you know exactly where you are!
This is one of the only sensible comments in this entire thread. Just go wander, talk to and observe people, etc... I've traveled extensively and all of my best experiences are from this sort of thing.
I can say I've had good and bad - I've wondered through cities with no direction and found -- nothing, two that come to mind are Paris and Barcelona. I'm sure there is interesting stuff to be found here and there but mostly, outside of the main attractions, I found the rest not much more interesting than American suburbia. Yes, I'm glad I saw it to basically see that "life is life". There's the interesting coast, or the restaurant row that's already on the tourist map, then there's the living areas where every block or two there's a convenience store, another non-descript cafe, a hair salon, etc... Maybe once in a while something sticks out but mostly not.
To be clear, I found both cities amazing. But, the "this city is amazing" parts are the parts listed as must visit. The "get lost parts" less so, with a few exceptions.
I've had more luck doing things further down the list. On 3rd or 4th visit, I'm not doing the top 10 most popular things. I'm down on 40th or 50th or 100th.
This advice is so unnecessary to the point that it sounds weird. I lived in a touristy place, and trust me, as a tourist you won't be doing what locals do by default. No special decision, no efforts needed at all.
I try to add some randomness to my travels. Just pick a few random places on a map, research them for a few minutes, and if there is anything remotely interesting there, just go there. If you discover something more interesting on the way and never reach your destination, then you definitively succeeded.
As a local, one of the funnest things to do is to host out-of-town guests and to just do the touristy things in combination with local knowledge. Bus tours, museums, food, etc. Do it all. For me, it's stuff I'd probably never do unless pressed to provide entertainment for guests I care about.
So, do the local thing with tourists and retain a focus on a combination of showing off the best elements of being a local; with the wide-eyed enthusiasm of the tourist. As a blow-in to NY, I'd like others to appreciate it too.
Do what the tourists do, but with the locals. Do what the locals do, but with the tourists.
> P.S. if you are a local, you can do all of this too.
Last year, after spending a bunch of money putting in a fence, and having a puppy that didn't travel well, we decided that we were just going to take a week off and be tourists at home. We visited the museums we've driven by daily for eight years, and had a blast.
And, living in a touristy area, I want to point out that "do what the locals do" is excellent advice. I'll tell you all about where to get great food, great hikes, and not-too-crowded beaches. (Except the residents-only beach. We reserve that for us.)
Better advice isn't 'do what the locals do' or 'avoid what the locals do'. It's to actually talk to people, both locals and other travelers, instead of treating either group as a script to copy from a distance. Have a beer, ask questions, hang out, and see what people are really into.
> I’m skeptical of the term tourist trap (it’s mostly used as a term to place yourself as higher status/taste than other people, and is often used out of insecurity)
One thing I've read years ago about tourist traps is that one shouldn't be actively trying to avoid them, especially if they come from a country with higher purchasing power.
Some of these "tourist trap" activities are locals trying to make an honest living doing what they can. It should be fine to take a tuk tuk, or to buy paintings and souvenirs from people off the street.
Everyone should avoid getting ripped off, but what's 0.1% of a month's wages to a tourist could pay for an entire day's meals for a local.
I don't think people should get ripped off just because they can afford it.
If you visit Sweden, don't buy ice cream in the historic area of Stockholm ("gamla stan").
As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home". But you are not helping a starving ice cream labourer with your purchase, you are simply being taken for a ride. Walk a couple of blocks more and check the signs, and you can buy it at half price from a respectable establishment instead. Most likely the ice cream will be better at the next place as well.
I don't think it's "ripping off" tourists to ask them to pay a price they can easily afford rather than the usual local price, ridiculously low for a tourist.
I cringe when I hear Europeans proud that they haggled to death on an African market to lower the price from "cheap" to "dirt cheap". Dude, that's pocket change for you, can't you help the local economy a bit, and help the guy feed his family?
> As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home".
Is this a joke? $10 for a single scoop of ice cream in the US is a lot of money and also the US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. You can barely feed yourself with the US minimum wage and you definitely can't pay for shelter or healthcare or anything else you would need to survive here, but that's a story for another time.
The current US minimum wage is so way below market wages in most places to be meaningless, though. I'm sure McDonald's would like to hire people at $7.25/hr (or better yet have robots that they don't have to pay after acquiring). But currently, they have to advertise that their starting salary for workers near me is $14/hr because if they don't they won't get anyone. Politicians like to talk about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr or whatever as if that would suddenly give working class people a huge raise, but it would simply reflect the existing reality.
By my definition "tourist traps" are both low quality and high price... and also fairly easy to avoid. If you can walk three blocks away from a major attraction and find restaurants that are both cheaper and better, then the other ones are tourist traps. If they're decent quality but merely expensive due to their location, then they're charging for convenience and there's nothing much wrong with that.
That would be lovely but seems people really really want to be in the same places I am.
This year just called defeat and I'm moving out to the countryside, hopefully. My city had almost no tourist three years ago and now I had to shout twice to a tourist guide for using a very loud speaker in the very street I live in.
Just today I saw a 1 start review in a place I really like, by a german lady that was baffled waiters didn't even try to speak english to her.
It's just impossible to fight this. Guess we'll have to make our nice place elsewhere until tourists find out.
I spend summers in Central Portugal after enduring the winter of Canada's North. Sometimes my Canadian friends want to spend a couple of days in Portugal and ask me what's for a good place to visit, or a good attraction to go to, etc. I always answer the same:
I have no idea. I don't go as a tourist. I go to live in my family's home town for 6 or 7 weeks and not think about work. I don't have any recommendations for a checklist. I avoid the touristy places if I can.
I then turn it around on them. If someone was visiting Canada for 2 or 3 days, where do you tell them to go? I dunno.
That's what I did on my last vacation, and it was lovely.
Except that I was in a cabin, on an island, in a foreign country. And the reason I was absolutely undistracted from my book, is that I'd turned my phone off before crossing the border. And I left it off, all week.
The isolation and quiet surroundings made the "week off" truly off. Nobody could reach me if they tried. Whatever calamity befell my boss, he'd just have to wait.
That's so much better than I'd normally do at home on a week off, and it was 100% worth the travel to achieve it.
I would quite like for more of the cafes and restaurants near my home to be other peoples' Disneyland, to some extent, since this would provide a lot of jobs in the area and help the owners.
I'd take you mushroom hunting (but really just exploring and running around in the forest this time of year), maybe pick up a trout on the way home to grill. That's a few days a week for me (the trout leas though).
As for touristy things here in Zurich - it's not really a tourist city. When we have guests from overseas we do have a set of activities to bring them on. When I've offered to bring them in the forest to find mushrooms/berries/etc they're usually not so interested.
Basically human "interesting-ness" is a very wide spectrum, skewed with a very long tail.
The average person may not be an interesting model for getting the most out of life in a short time in any particular place, but the top 0.1% of people measured by the texture, quality and interesting-ness of their lives exceeds any metric of "noteworthy events per hour" by a factor of 100.
There is one tourist trap I have seen often, and that is thinking one needs to do a certain list of things to see everything in your one visit of the place.
Check the lists of tourist traps, see what interests you and fill your day there with whatever excites you.
The phrase "do what the locals do" is very vague. Like, think about your own life - the "local" places that you go to hang out, drink, eat, have fun etc. differ very much depending on:
- your means of transportation
- how wealthy you are
- who you're with
- whether it's a special occasion or just a random Tuesday
We lived close to the Formula One track in Melbourne for a time. They gave out free tickets to locals, as a kind of compensation for the noise and construction disturbance, so my young son and I enjoyed a day of rummaging around and seeing the cars, logos, hotdogs and candifloss. But the best bit has always been the epic flypass of the 747 or A380 and very noisy fighter jets.
Melbourne has spent a lot on extensive bike pathways and new train stops, and recently made some tram travel free [ as a crowd-pleaser to counter petrol price hikes ], so its quite a pretty city to explore on foot or bike.
Bangkok and Danang have some great cafes .. the best seem to be when you wander a few sois away from the main shopping zones.
I especially like seeing the old wooden elevated Thai houses, which are becoming rare. Another way to find hidden gems, is walk along the banks of a klong - you get to see the underbelly of the city, without the makeup.
The locals in Bangkok tend to love the new shiny hypermalls and pristine train stations that segway into them. The air-con is nice after an hour of roadside bargain hunting.
In BKK, if you like bargains on clothing or bricabrac, I _highly_ recommend going to the top floor of the Pantip building across and west down the road from the shiny upgraded 'The Mall' Ngamwongwan. The weekend indoor market is crazy busy with affordable bargain stalls with the cheapest jeans, tees etc. Smaller but more enjoyable than the massive and more famous Chatuchak. If by chance you need alterations, there are a couple of great shops on the 5th floor, iirc - 60 baht hems, wow. The 4th? floor foodcourt is quieter than most. There is a whole floor of Thai buddhist good luck charm amulets. You'll have to run the gamut of outdoor stalls to get into the place, but that can be fun. There is also an incredible coffee shop down soi 27, called "High Coffee Roaster". I was stranded looking for my airbnb, and a local came out of a shop and asked me if I was lost .. then recommended a local cafe I could wait at until checkin. The cafe staff caught me smelling my coffee, as it was so good, and then gifted me a tiny dish of ground coffee specifically to smell .. incredible coffee and superb service.
> But today I imagine you visiting my hometown and spending a day with the locals. You’d probably end up watching reality TV, ordering some ‘New American’ food on Doordash (it’s a cheeseburger with Korean Kimchi Glaze™), and sports betting from your phone.
This is an idiosyncratic and gratuitously contrarian take on what the actual advice means. If you go to New York, you're more likely to have a good time at a random neighborhood bar that the locals frequent than at a bar in Times Square. If you're in a small town, at least some of the locals probably know about a good hike 20 minutes out of town with a great view that would be hard to find otherwise. Don't overthink it.
First line: "My best piece of travel advice is to avoid doing what the locals do."
The writer seems incapable of distinguishing between the special, cool local things the locals KNOW about, and which a tourist might well benefit from trying, and the things locals DO because they don't do those special, cool things every day. Instead locals are usually doing similar things to what we normally do.
Speaking as someone from Edinburgh where the locals are notoriously jaded (ask someone that has lived in edi for a few years what festival shows they went to this year): It's more that we _forget_ rather than never knowing.
Asks me what cool things to do nearby on the spot and I'll probably draw a blank. But say what you are doing instead and I'll probably go "oh yeah! That's brilliant! I love thing X".
I do know where good dog walking spots just outside Edinburgh are though, and I'm still regularly discovering more because I'm effectively a tourist ;).
I struggle with this too in Edinburgh; I make a point of trying to stay engaged and keep recognizing how amazing the place is from the outside.
Going to the festival (and the book festival, back when that was in Charlotte Square) is improved by leaning into your local status and knowing how to duck in and out. And ideally knowing someone with a lanyard who can get you into the media bar: it's not cooler and more happening in there, it's actually quieter.
There's a vennel route across the city. It's an odd experience going through a deserted and mildly unpleasant alley, stepping out into a shuffling horde of tourists, cutting sideways across their paths, and ducking behind some bins into another quiet path. Like walking from the wings of the stage across it.
When I was an expat, there was a subtle kind of experience in settling into buying groceries and getting haircuts from the local providers. Or shopping for furniture for our own apartment, or hiring someone to do remodeling on a house...
But, I'm the type who also finds enjoyment in the same scenic trails and camping areas visited hundreds of times in my life in different seasons, etc. I don't need to try to see everything once in a superficial, whirlwind of a tour...
Further, he specifically mentioned Bordain, who focussed predominantly on food, and I think the concept of doing what the locals do is hugely rooted in choosing a restaurant. As in: locals won't eat in overpriced tourist traps, and will have had the chance to try enough local spots to know where's good. So if you want to choose a (e.g.) Chinese restaurant, choose one with lots of Chinese people in. (This applies whether you're in China or elsewhere.)
this, you need to find the active locals that care about their community. the curious ones that like to explore and they will tell you. i could show you places in vienna that no tourist has ever seen, right in the center of town. i have gone on a day hike with a family in japan, up the mountain right near where they lived. no idea how well known that place was. same for new zealand and other places. china is touristically well developed. mostly for domestic tourism, so there finding the special spots only the locals know is more difficult. but they do exist. one friend took me eating at a local buddhist temple in the small industrial town where i lived. people taking me to their favorite hangout spots gives me a glimpse of what local life is like.
The corollary of this is that if you are a local you should do some more touristy things.
I don't mean to go to a tourist trap and get scammed, but just enjoy your city a little more and do some things that usually only tourists do.
For example, despite living most of my life in London, I've never been to the Tower of London. Why would I? It's for tourists. Except it's probably quite fascinating, especially for a local.
My grew up on Long Island and not once did she go to a Broadway show. She's a bit regretful about it now that she's moved halfway across the country.
This comment resonnate with me and in the last few months that is why I have been working on a side project to "be a tourist" in your own town.
https://www.izeria.com/en
Where you can discover places near you and connect to their history, I have also added some check-in mechanics and quiz to gaming the experience and for to actually go see the place in person.
Think Pokemon go but for Wikipedia places.
Absolutely love this! Are you live pulling from Wikipedia for each search?
Also worth checking out Atlas Obscura. Kind of similar, kind of different.
Yes, this is amazing. I would love to know where the data is coming from.
I’m routinely surprised by native San Franciscans who’ve never been to Alcatraz, seen Pier 39, or gone whale watching. Yes, they’re touristy things to do. They’re also very interesting and lots of fun!
I finally went to Alcatraz after years where I've either lived in SF or visited for work. It was worth spending some time out there! Great views as well.
Agreed! I routinely cycle around the city and one of my favorite loops is along the Embarcadero and up through Pier 39 and Fisherman’s Wharf.
We live in a beautiful city that people come from all over to see and there are good reasons for that. I’ll also offer to take pictures of families taking their photos with the sea lions (which I also always stop to watch) and chat them up a bit. Fun times.
Have you seen Chonkers yet? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/chonkers-the-massi...
He is a Stellers Sea lion (2,500 lbs and 11 feet) while generally the other sea lions are Caldiornia Sea Lions (850 lbs and 7 feet).
Wasn’t this the original definition of staycation. That you would stay at home and make day trips out to local destinations for a week.
For some, it means you break out the tiny paper umbrellas to put in a drink and sit on your own balcony or sofa instead of a tourist beach...
In case you don't know:
"Tower Hamlets residents visit for just £1
Local residents within the borough of Tower Hamlets can visit the Tower of London for only £1.00."
It's worth a visit being a tourist or a local.
As a fellow Londoner I can confirm it's worth visiting and the crown jewels are also nicely presented. Don't be fooled into queueing for the bloody tower torture chamber, anything you can see seemed to be a Victorian fantasy.
They have been fracking oil like 15 minutes walk from my previous house since 1986… I just found out after seeing a curious sign on a fence around a pretty secluded terrain when taking a stroll. It only became public knowledge a year or so ago when the government announced publicly that they would continue operations for another x years. Protests are still ongoing. Take more local strolls!
More importantly: future tourist trap! You should set up a lemonade stand.
I live in the DC area and it is kind of sad that a lot of people here haven't been to the various Smithsonian museums (which are free) here, or haven't been since they were children.
100%. I've lived in Paris well over a year and finally walked up on the Eiffel Tower and I enjoyed it. But of course not in July or August! But being local means you can go on an unexpectedly sunny March weekend.
I took a trip to the Château de Vincennes this weekend, a nice place and not crowded at all.
> For example, despite living most of my life in London, I've never been to the Tower of London. Why would I?
Why wouldn't you?
Note: It's great, you should go.
The title is a non sequitur from the argument. The point is not to ask for a "bring a non-local to work day" where you tag along to a rando doing their normal routine.
The thing that locals do know a lot of the time, is the spots that are actually great but not hyped up by influencers/social media, the cool spots that are often good by virtue of not being well known, etc. And no one is arguing that the locals know all the best cultural attractions, the point of asking locals for advice is to understand what they see in their own city.
This is where platforms like Couchers.org or whatever come up, where you want to actually understand the locals, more than just see the hyped up touristy stuff (which often can also be phenomenal!).
That was my take, too.
The advice isn't to literally live a life in the day of a local, it's to ask the locals what the interesting things to do are. Nobody is actually suggesting that you go hang out at an office for 8 hours, stop by an affordable grocery store and then watch Netflix.
E.G. People in Seattle will not tell you to go to the space needle or to Pike Place Market (at best you might hear that you should go at least once). They will tell you to ride a bike from Lake Union to the Locks on a sunny day, and you will have more fun and see more than fighting the crowds at Pike Place.
> spots that are actually great but not hyped up
One phenomenon I noticed is that unpaid things (even if they're world class museums) often get left in the shadow of others that sell tickets - these get packaged in "city pass" cards, etc. and get more exposure from their selling.
Okay, okay, but Slay the Spire 2 is a fantastic game though and I've had an absolute blast playing it.
I live in a tourist town. 3000 residents, 4 million visitors each year. And I'm just fine with the tourists not going to the places I go - we tend to like the quieter, more affordable places vs. the big fancy price-gouging places. But assuming that us "locals" just sit at home and do nothing is such an unfair and inaccurate assessment. Why would I want to live in a town as crazy as this if I did nothing here?
I enjoy having a vast variety of restaurants and activities that I otherwise would not have in a small town in the Midwest. The roads are well maintained, we have more parks than we otherwise would, there are trails, rivers, and tons of activities. We don't spend all our time partaking of the tourist activities, but we abso-freaking-lutely spend some time enjoying what the town has to offer.
No fair! I live in a place with lots of tourism and the roads are terrible.
It is obvious that "do what the locals do" should not be taken literally, because locals are likely working most of the day. So the authors actual advice seems to be "avoid what the locals do, when they don't want to do anything". Everyone else likely interprets it as "do what the locals do, when they want to have fun" which is good advice.
My daily routines are of no interest to tourist. They are probably similar to their own routines at home anyway. When I got out on the weekends it can get wild though and I'd wager it's exactly what many tourists are looking for.
Yeah, I felt this was obvious as well. I like to "do what the locals do" when I travel, but by that I don't mean work during the weekdays of my vacation or spring clean an apartment. And if I say "do what the locals do" no one else would think I mean that I worked or did house chores.
The locals are living their lives on an organic cadence. They're not maximizing entertainment value or whatever. They will certainly know entertaining things to do, but it's literally not their job to entertain tourists. Maybe seeking out a Disneyland like experience in someone else's home is the problem? Bourdain, Rick Steves, et al. are fun to watch, but I can't help but feel they've actually made the world a worse place by romanticizing tourism. There are many sayings about how travel reduces prejudice... but if you actually look at it at scale, it's almost always a global negative.
While the folks like Bourdain did romanticize tourism, and TV shows are known to regularly kill businesses that don't know how to manage the increase in customers, they did at least project the proper attitude of embracing the differences in other cultures when they traveled to places.
The current issues with tourism are significantly more to do with "influencers" and social media. Many places are overrun by people that are just there to get their photos and have zero interest in engaging with the culture or treating locals with respect.
Its shocking how different some places have gotten due to "influencers". Last year I was in Kuala Lumpur for a few days and took the person I was with to a bunch of the places I had visited when I was there a decade ago. It struck me when walking around a couple places that there are photos I took during my first trip that would simply be impossible to get today because of the number of people in the way.
Locals trend conservative, always giving the advice "don't do that, you'll definitely die" because they remember one bad incident 10 or 20 years ago and never clock how circumstances have changed. My favorite is the time I was warned over and over by several different people about not going somewhere because I would surely be killed by foreigners or wolves. Dude, what? If there was a major problem with one, it would scare off the other. Are they working together?? lol
well that's not always the case - I live in place where you can jog with earphones at 2AM and only worry about drunk drivers (very rare)
as a local, there was a lot of places that are "visible to foreigners but invisible to locals" -- cafes/view spots/hipster-places that only advertises to foreigners (they didn't even have signboards) I learnt about those places when some foreign friends took me there
My best travel advice (for urban areas) is simple: get lost. If you don't know exactly where you are or what's around the corner, you've got to take it as it comes, and that makes it all the more interesting. No FOMO or opportunity cost struggles, just what's in front of you right now.
This is both easier and harder with smartphones and GPS. Harder because, well, you know exactly where you are and have to actively ignore the phone. Easier because when you're ready to be done, you know exactly where you are!
This is one of the only sensible comments in this entire thread. Just go wander, talk to and observe people, etc... I've traveled extensively and all of my best experiences are from this sort of thing.
What are some of your experiences with this?
I can say I've had good and bad - I've wondered through cities with no direction and found -- nothing, two that come to mind are Paris and Barcelona. I'm sure there is interesting stuff to be found here and there but mostly, outside of the main attractions, I found the rest not much more interesting than American suburbia. Yes, I'm glad I saw it to basically see that "life is life". There's the interesting coast, or the restaurant row that's already on the tourist map, then there's the living areas where every block or two there's a convenience store, another non-descript cafe, a hair salon, etc... Maybe once in a while something sticks out but mostly not.
To be clear, I found both cities amazing. But, the "this city is amazing" parts are the parts listed as must visit. The "get lost parts" less so, with a few exceptions.
I've had more luck doing things further down the list. On 3rd or 4th visit, I'm not doing the top 10 most popular things. I'm down on 40th or 50th or 100th.
On the other hand, too many tourists is a thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMYbYuhKFdw
This advice is so unnecessary to the point that it sounds weird. I lived in a touristy place, and trust me, as a tourist you won't be doing what locals do by default. No special decision, no efforts needed at all.
I try to add some randomness to my travels. Just pick a few random places on a map, research them for a few minutes, and if there is anything remotely interesting there, just go there. If you discover something more interesting on the way and never reach your destination, then you definitively succeeded.
As a local, one of the funnest things to do is to host out-of-town guests and to just do the touristy things in combination with local knowledge. Bus tours, museums, food, etc. Do it all. For me, it's stuff I'd probably never do unless pressed to provide entertainment for guests I care about.
So, do the local thing with tourists and retain a focus on a combination of showing off the best elements of being a local; with the wide-eyed enthusiasm of the tourist. As a blow-in to NY, I'd like others to appreciate it too.
Do what the tourists do, but with the locals. Do what the locals do, but with the tourists.
A less grumpy corollary: do the things in your town that you only do when you have visitors.
I live in a very touristy area:
> P.S. if you are a local, you can do all of this too.
Last year, after spending a bunch of money putting in a fence, and having a puppy that didn't travel well, we decided that we were just going to take a week off and be tourists at home. We visited the museums we've driven by daily for eight years, and had a blast.
And, living in a touristy area, I want to point out that "do what the locals do" is excellent advice. I'll tell you all about where to get great food, great hikes, and not-too-crowded beaches. (Except the residents-only beach. We reserve that for us.)
Better advice isn't 'do what the locals do' or 'avoid what the locals do'. It's to actually talk to people, both locals and other travelers, instead of treating either group as a script to copy from a distance. Have a beer, ask questions, hang out, and see what people are really into.
That's a bingo!
> I’m skeptical of the term tourist trap (it’s mostly used as a term to place yourself as higher status/taste than other people, and is often used out of insecurity)
One thing I've read years ago about tourist traps is that one shouldn't be actively trying to avoid them, especially if they come from a country with higher purchasing power.
Some of these "tourist trap" activities are locals trying to make an honest living doing what they can. It should be fine to take a tuk tuk, or to buy paintings and souvenirs from people off the street.
Everyone should avoid getting ripped off, but what's 0.1% of a month's wages to a tourist could pay for an entire day's meals for a local.
I don't think people should get ripped off just because they can afford it.
If you visit Sweden, don't buy ice cream in the historic area of Stockholm ("gamla stan").
As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home". But you are not helping a starving ice cream labourer with your purchase, you are simply being taken for a ride. Walk a couple of blocks more and check the signs, and you can buy it at half price from a respectable establishment instead. Most likely the ice cream will be better at the next place as well.
I don't think it's "ripping off" tourists to ask them to pay a price they can easily afford rather than the usual local price, ridiculously low for a tourist.
I cringe when I hear Europeans proud that they haggled to death on an African market to lower the price from "cheap" to "dirt cheap". Dude, that's pocket change for you, can't you help the local economy a bit, and help the guy feed his family?
In Washington DC, don't buy ice cream from the trucks in the national mall.
> As an American you might think "$10 for a single scoop of vanilla, that's nothing. A minimum wage worker packing groceries earn twice that in an hour back home".
Is this a joke? $10 for a single scoop of ice cream in the US is a lot of money and also the US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. You can barely feed yourself with the US minimum wage and you definitely can't pay for shelter or healthcare or anything else you would need to survive here, but that's a story for another time.
The current US minimum wage is so way below market wages in most places to be meaningless, though. I'm sure McDonald's would like to hire people at $7.25/hr (or better yet have robots that they don't have to pay after acquiring). But currently, they have to advertise that their starting salary for workers near me is $14/hr because if they don't they won't get anyone. Politicians like to talk about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr or whatever as if that would suddenly give working class people a huge raise, but it would simply reflect the existing reality.
By my definition "tourist traps" are both low quality and high price... and also fairly easy to avoid. If you can walk three blocks away from a major attraction and find restaurants that are both cheaper and better, then the other ones are tourist traps. If they're decent quality but merely expensive due to their location, then they're charging for convenience and there's nothing much wrong with that.
That would be lovely but seems people really really want to be in the same places I am.
This year just called defeat and I'm moving out to the countryside, hopefully. My city had almost no tourist three years ago and now I had to shout twice to a tourist guide for using a very loud speaker in the very street I live in.
Just today I saw a 1 start review in a place I really like, by a german lady that was baffled waiters didn't even try to speak english to her.
It's just impossible to fight this. Guess we'll have to make our nice place elsewhere until tourists find out.
I spend summers in Central Portugal after enduring the winter of Canada's North. Sometimes my Canadian friends want to spend a couple of days in Portugal and ask me what's for a good place to visit, or a good attraction to go to, etc. I always answer the same:
I have no idea. I don't go as a tourist. I go to live in my family's home town for 6 or 7 weeks and not think about work. I don't have any recommendations for a checklist. I avoid the touristy places if I can.
I then turn it around on them. If someone was visiting Canada for 2 or 3 days, where do you tell them to go? I dunno.
Do what you would do at home on a week off.
Chill out on my porch, read a book, make a salad? I don't think that's what the post is getting at.
That's what I did on my last vacation, and it was lovely.
Except that I was in a cabin, on an island, in a foreign country. And the reason I was absolutely undistracted from my book, is that I'd turned my phone off before crossing the border. And I left it off, all week.
The isolation and quiet surroundings made the "week off" truly off. Nobody could reach me if they tried. Whatever calamity befell my boss, he'd just have to wait.
That's so much better than I'd normally do at home on a week off, and it was 100% worth the travel to achieve it.
Right, it's a weird thing to travel for though.
Why? I don't have a porch at home, and it's too hot to sit outside and read.
But I could just do that at home. Why travel?
This is part of the wider conversation. At least one reason is because other peoples' home is not your Disneyland.
I would quite like for more of the cafes and restaurants near my home to be other peoples' Disneyland, to some extent, since this would provide a lot of jobs in the area and help the owners.
I'd take you mushroom hunting (but really just exploring and running around in the forest this time of year), maybe pick up a trout on the way home to grill. That's a few days a week for me (the trout leas though).
As for touristy things here in Zurich - it's not really a tourist city. When we have guests from overseas we do have a set of activities to bring them on. When I've offered to bring them in the forest to find mushrooms/berries/etc they're usually not so interested.
That museum behind the Bahnhof is pretty cool, I thought.
In a lot of places the best mushroom spots are guarded secrets.
You would have to sign an nda.
Basically human "interesting-ness" is a very wide spectrum, skewed with a very long tail.
The average person may not be an interesting model for getting the most out of life in a short time in any particular place, but the top 0.1% of people measured by the texture, quality and interesting-ness of their lives exceeds any metric of "noteworthy events per hour" by a factor of 100.
There is one tourist trap I have seen often, and that is thinking one needs to do a certain list of things to see everything in your one visit of the place.
Check the lists of tourist traps, see what interests you and fill your day there with whatever excites you.
The phrase "do what the locals do" is very vague. Like, think about your own life - the "local" places that you go to hang out, drink, eat, have fun etc. differ very much depending on:
- your means of transportation
- how wealthy you are
- who you're with
- whether it's a special occasion or just a random Tuesday
We lived close to the Formula One track in Melbourne for a time. They gave out free tickets to locals, as a kind of compensation for the noise and construction disturbance, so my young son and I enjoyed a day of rummaging around and seeing the cars, logos, hotdogs and candifloss. But the best bit has always been the epic flypass of the 747 or A380 and very noisy fighter jets.
Melbourne has spent a lot on extensive bike pathways and new train stops, and recently made some tram travel free [ as a crowd-pleaser to counter petrol price hikes ], so its quite a pretty city to explore on foot or bike.
Bangkok and Danang have some great cafes .. the best seem to be when you wander a few sois away from the main shopping zones.
I especially like seeing the old wooden elevated Thai houses, which are becoming rare. Another way to find hidden gems, is walk along the banks of a klong - you get to see the underbelly of the city, without the makeup.
The locals in Bangkok tend to love the new shiny hypermalls and pristine train stations that segway into them. The air-con is nice after an hour of roadside bargain hunting.
In BKK, if you like bargains on clothing or bricabrac, I _highly_ recommend going to the top floor of the Pantip building across and west down the road from the shiny upgraded 'The Mall' Ngamwongwan. The weekend indoor market is crazy busy with affordable bargain stalls with the cheapest jeans, tees etc. Smaller but more enjoyable than the massive and more famous Chatuchak. If by chance you need alterations, there are a couple of great shops on the 5th floor, iirc - 60 baht hems, wow. The 4th? floor foodcourt is quieter than most. There is a whole floor of Thai buddhist good luck charm amulets. You'll have to run the gamut of outdoor stalls to get into the place, but that can be fun. There is also an incredible coffee shop down soi 27, called "High Coffee Roaster". I was stranded looking for my airbnb, and a local came out of a shop and asked me if I was lost .. then recommended a local cafe I could wait at until checkin. The cafe staff caught me smelling my coffee, as it was so good, and then gifted me a tiny dish of ground coffee specifically to smell .. incredible coffee and superb service.
What is this post. The point is normal people do normal things in their normal lives.
I regret reading and commenting, but hopefully save someone else.
> But today I imagine you visiting my hometown and spending a day with the locals. You’d probably end up watching reality TV, ordering some ‘New American’ food on Doordash (it’s a cheeseburger with Korean Kimchi Glaze™), and sports betting from your phone.
This is an idiosyncratic and gratuitously contrarian take on what the actual advice means. If you go to New York, you're more likely to have a good time at a random neighborhood bar that the locals frequent than at a bar in Times Square. If you're in a small town, at least some of the locals probably know about a good hike 20 minutes out of town with a great view that would be hard to find otherwise. Don't overthink it.
Title: "The Locals Don't Know"
First line: "My best piece of travel advice is to avoid doing what the locals do."
The writer seems incapable of distinguishing between the special, cool local things the locals KNOW about, and which a tourist might well benefit from trying, and the things locals DO because they don't do those special, cool things every day. Instead locals are usually doing similar things to what we normally do.
Which renders this article rather pointless.
Speaking as someone from Edinburgh where the locals are notoriously jaded (ask someone that has lived in edi for a few years what festival shows they went to this year): It's more that we _forget_ rather than never knowing.
Asks me what cool things to do nearby on the spot and I'll probably draw a blank. But say what you are doing instead and I'll probably go "oh yeah! That's brilliant! I love thing X".
I do know where good dog walking spots just outside Edinburgh are though, and I'm still regularly discovering more because I'm effectively a tourist ;).
I struggle with this too in Edinburgh; I make a point of trying to stay engaged and keep recognizing how amazing the place is from the outside.
Going to the festival (and the book festival, back when that was in Charlotte Square) is improved by leaning into your local status and knowing how to duck in and out. And ideally knowing someone with a lanyard who can get you into the media bar: it's not cooler and more happening in there, it's actually quieter.
There's a vennel route across the city. It's an odd experience going through a deserted and mildly unpleasant alley, stepping out into a shuffling horde of tourists, cutting sideways across their paths, and ducking behind some bins into another quiet path. Like walking from the wings of the stage across it.
I don't even know if I accept the premise.
When I was an expat, there was a subtle kind of experience in settling into buying groceries and getting haircuts from the local providers. Or shopping for furniture for our own apartment, or hiring someone to do remodeling on a house...
But, I'm the type who also finds enjoyment in the same scenic trails and camping areas visited hundreds of times in my life in different seasons, etc. I don't need to try to see everything once in a superficial, whirlwind of a tour...
Further, he specifically mentioned Bordain, who focussed predominantly on food, and I think the concept of doing what the locals do is hugely rooted in choosing a restaurant. As in: locals won't eat in overpriced tourist traps, and will have had the chance to try enough local spots to know where's good. So if you want to choose a (e.g.) Chinese restaurant, choose one with lots of Chinese people in. (This applies whether you're in China or elsewhere.)
Well, it dépends: there are a lot of places where the locals goes because they are cheap not because they are good.
But yes, ask the locals.
this, you need to find the active locals that care about their community. the curious ones that like to explore and they will tell you. i could show you places in vienna that no tourist has ever seen, right in the center of town. i have gone on a day hike with a family in japan, up the mountain right near where they lived. no idea how well known that place was. same for new zealand and other places. china is touristically well developed. mostly for domestic tourism, so there finding the special spots only the locals know is more difficult. but they do exist. one friend took me eating at a local buddhist temple in the small industrial town where i lived. people taking me to their favorite hangout spots gives me a glimpse of what local life is like.
They know more than the author that’s for sure.