My experience estate planning is that there are a lot of sensitive details in the documents. The tried a true method is the estate planning binder. Typically there is a worksheet to guide with the collection of information and then trusted parties review and find the missing details and then also work through the complex planning part. LLMs have, this far, not been good at that.
In the last 20 that I've done the biggest hurdle has been sitting down to do the work. A smarter worksheet doesn't solve the human problem of: "I'll get to this later".
Another critical part this doesn't handle is having a trusted party to help during the shit storm. Your estate lawyer and/or executor provide more than organized data.
We definitely do not intend to replace estate lawyers or executors who create these documents and manage their execution. Our goal is just make it easier to gather all the critical documents, contacts, bills, etc...and share clear instructions for what to do when so families know what exists and what next steps are during a stressful time.
Yea, I hear you on that. The point is that the answer is known and folk don't do it anyway - like "eat more vegetables". It's an awareness and action problem. There are dozens of tools exactly like this. Many are designed by someone dealing with it the first time (maybe this is another case). And they solve the easiest part of the shit situation. This component and all the other harder ones would be sorted by a planner. But ALSO, this easy part could have been solved if anyone in the family took initiative - and they don't. When you have this problem it's already too late.
This product is literally a free document one could download and write on.
If folk aren't doing that, why would they use a new shiny (unproven) tool that cost money?
One thing that I couldn't understand from the website: how is this triggered?
This sounds useful, but I also want an automated way to distribute the information when needed. Maybe a dead man's switch of sorts?
For example, suppose I'm a single adult, and I set this all up. Then I go for a hike and disappear forever. How can the trigger of distribution happen?
In our earliest versions we experimented with a dead mans switch, but feedback was that folks would forget to reply to the monthly keep alive and we'd risk triggering too many false alarms. So we opted for picking trusted family members who you grant ongoing read only access. That way in an emergency, they already have the access they need to act.
We're 100% open to the idea of a dead man's switch, just want to find a way to avoid triggering too many false alarms. Any ideas on how to do that?
Optional feature, off by default, customizable time interval, and a warning about false alarms?
Even with that you'd likely still trigger false alarms regularly, though they would be the responsibility of the user. Not sure whether it would be a worthwhile tradeoff overall.
Maybe an optional app? Send the keepalive email and alert the trusted family members when the app stops pinging back.
This would at least indicate that the phone is turned off or lost signal. All of this should be configurable by the user including thresholds before alert, reply timeout, etc.
I think expecting a ping from the app every 24h is a sensible default. Most people already "call to see if their phone is dead". This just automates it.
a hundred dollars a year for this?? What does the service even do with that money? I pay this for 20 years so you can share a google doc upon my demise?
Having dealt with this with a couple of family members, set it a similar system for my spouse and I, and also been tech support for numerous friends doing somethign similar I'll provide a couple notes
* The biggest product market fit note to me is that this misunderstands the information access challenge. My experience has been that you are on 'step 2' of the information - organizing it and accessing it. Step 1 is getting the information out of the person, all of it, correctly, willingly. These are hard conversations and structuring them is less of a challenge than the emotional piece.
* In the zero trust/everything is multifactor age what I have really found is that access to cell phone and email are the most critical. I don't see where this prioritizes those...because I won't be able to login to anything of (say) my mom's from my laptop until I have those two things to verify identity.
* I can't quite tell whether you are pitching this at 'healthy people to set this up for the future' (a nonstarter because of annual subscription cost) or 'healthy person helping sick family member' (they have enough going on that starting using a new piece of software is an unsustainable cognitive load delta no matter the ease).
Big picture...what I recommend for friends and family is a password manager with a deadmans switch someone else (your estate personal rep) can trigger. That, plus good estate planning is basically sufficient. You should (and almost always can) have some document in there listing major accounts nad bills that is mostly up to date. This stuff doesn't have to be perfect it just needs to be good enough because no matter why you are activating it perfect is not going to be an option or even helpful.
That's a solid approach. I've heard of folks creating a google doc, a password vault, even a binder that's in a safe deposit box. The real challenge is just that so many of us procrastinate and do not invest the time to gather all this information and make sure family know how to access it. That's what inspired me to build LastShelf - to make the process less intimidating and more accessible.
My experience estate planning is that there are a lot of sensitive details in the documents. The tried a true method is the estate planning binder. Typically there is a worksheet to guide with the collection of information and then trusted parties review and find the missing details and then also work through the complex planning part. LLMs have, this far, not been good at that.
In the last 20 that I've done the biggest hurdle has been sitting down to do the work. A smarter worksheet doesn't solve the human problem of: "I'll get to this later".
Another critical part this doesn't handle is having a trusted party to help during the shit storm. Your estate lawyer and/or executor provide more than organized data.
We definitely do not intend to replace estate lawyers or executors who create these documents and manage their execution. Our goal is just make it easier to gather all the critical documents, contacts, bills, etc...and share clear instructions for what to do when so families know what exists and what next steps are during a stressful time.
Yea, I hear you on that. The point is that the answer is known and folk don't do it anyway - like "eat more vegetables". It's an awareness and action problem. There are dozens of tools exactly like this. Many are designed by someone dealing with it the first time (maybe this is another case). And they solve the easiest part of the shit situation. This component and all the other harder ones would be sorted by a planner. But ALSO, this easy part could have been solved if anyone in the family took initiative - and they don't. When you have this problem it's already too late.
This product is literally a free document one could download and write on.
If folk aren't doing that, why would they use a new shiny (unproven) tool that cost money?
Critical stuff like this is definitely a good idea to delegate to an LLM.
Yes, especially a subscription AI service that will exist forever and ever.
One thing that I couldn't understand from the website: how is this triggered?
This sounds useful, but I also want an automated way to distribute the information when needed. Maybe a dead man's switch of sorts?
For example, suppose I'm a single adult, and I set this all up. Then I go for a hike and disappear forever. How can the trigger of distribution happen?
In our earliest versions we experimented with a dead mans switch, but feedback was that folks would forget to reply to the monthly keep alive and we'd risk triggering too many false alarms. So we opted for picking trusted family members who you grant ongoing read only access. That way in an emergency, they already have the access they need to act.
We're 100% open to the idea of a dead man's switch, just want to find a way to avoid triggering too many false alarms. Any ideas on how to do that?
Optional feature, off by default, customizable time interval, and a warning about false alarms?
Even with that you'd likely still trigger false alarms regularly, though they would be the responsibility of the user. Not sure whether it would be a worthwhile tradeoff overall.
Those are good suggestions. Thanks for sharing.
I built if-i-go-missing.com along these lines. Weird, I’m also a Brown!
Hahah, great minds think alike :)
Maybe an optional app? Send the keepalive email and alert the trusted family members when the app stops pinging back.
This would at least indicate that the phone is turned off or lost signal. All of this should be configurable by the user including thresholds before alert, reply timeout, etc.
I think expecting a ping from the app every 24h is a sensible default. Most people already "call to see if their phone is dead". This just automates it.
a hundred dollars a year for this?? What does the service even do with that money? I pay this for 20 years so you can share a google doc upon my demise?
I must be missing something.
Having dealt with this with a couple of family members, set it a similar system for my spouse and I, and also been tech support for numerous friends doing somethign similar I'll provide a couple notes
* The biggest product market fit note to me is that this misunderstands the information access challenge. My experience has been that you are on 'step 2' of the information - organizing it and accessing it. Step 1 is getting the information out of the person, all of it, correctly, willingly. These are hard conversations and structuring them is less of a challenge than the emotional piece.
* In the zero trust/everything is multifactor age what I have really found is that access to cell phone and email are the most critical. I don't see where this prioritizes those...because I won't be able to login to anything of (say) my mom's from my laptop until I have those two things to verify identity.
* I can't quite tell whether you are pitching this at 'healthy people to set this up for the future' (a nonstarter because of annual subscription cost) or 'healthy person helping sick family member' (they have enough going on that starting using a new piece of software is an unsustainable cognitive load delta no matter the ease).
Big picture...what I recommend for friends and family is a password manager with a deadmans switch someone else (your estate personal rep) can trigger. That, plus good estate planning is basically sufficient. You should (and almost always can) have some document in there listing major accounts nad bills that is mostly up to date. This stuff doesn't have to be perfect it just needs to be good enough because no matter why you are activating it perfect is not going to be an option or even helpful.
I have a keepass file that I keep fairly updated on multiple places, my phone being up to date.
A trusted family member has its password which is in their keepass.
In the event I am not around, I expect them to find the password and open the keepass.
Its less complicated this way
That's a solid approach. I've heard of folks creating a google doc, a password vault, even a binder that's in a safe deposit box. The real challenge is just that so many of us procrastinate and do not invest the time to gather all this information and make sure family know how to access it. That's what inspired me to build LastShelf - to make the process less intimidating and more accessible.
Love this - awesome release.