How coincidental this appears on my timeline today, it's my 12th year sober today. I started drinking heavily when I turned 21 and it spiraled until an all day, every day thing. I even had pancreatitis when I was 28 and even when it was obvious why I just refused to see it. One night when I was 30, a drunk family member got into a physical altercation with me and I asked a friend to pick me up so I could leave. On that trip, he simply said "have you ever considered that you might be an alcoholic?" I don't know what was different about this time, but I immediately realized it -- holy shit. I never drank again after that.
Once I quit I immediately was "my old self" again. I got back into playing video games, listening to MY music instead of whatever was palatable to whomever I was drinking with, dedicating all my time and energy into my kids and my nerdy hobbies.
It might come across as silly but, if you have someone close to you who has a drinking problem, it might be worth asking them about it. They probably won't be receptive to it until the time is right, but who knows? Maybe that time is when they ask for a ride from you at 2AM.
Well done! It’s so great you were able to quit cold turkey. You’ll live much longer, are likely to experience far fewer health issues, and have many more healthy years at the end of your life.
Sadly many (or maybe most) addicts cannot. Through some combination of compulsive temperament, impulsivity, mental health problems, or unresolved issues, they are unable to stop. Even when they know they’re addicts. My mother is one such person. She’s been seeking the answer her whole life. Religion. AA. Therapy. Exercise. Cold turkey. Multiple divorces. Medications. Moving country several times. Nothing sticks. She knows it’s killing her and can’t stop. I’m trying to convince her to take Wegovy as it’s shown to help with addiction.
I’m grateful that whatever combination of genes I inherited, I’m also able to go cold turkey. Maybe one day we have vaccines for it.
Thank you :) I did go to AA for 3 months when I first quit. I was encouraged by all of the stories, even the horrible and negative ones. I do realize I am lucky. My ex-spouse was not so lucky. It took damn near the destruction of her life to finally stop but she's been going for about 2 years now with lots of ups and downs. I never considered it something that could be vaccinated against but now I share your hope for it someday!
Honestly, I will tell you one thing:
For sure there have been some drunks forever, since the "invention" of alcohol - though, the drunks of today are a result of capitalism, if you dig deep down enough.
Anf if you do, you will see that its mostly money & material issues which brings people into extremes, in which then they will take the bottle. For mens in society (which is the by far bigger parts of drunks), these things are usually around losing the job, losing the partnership etc. The classic ones.
Regarding OP:
Thanks for sharing your story! And you can be very VERY proud that you managed this that specific way - great!
I've known plenty of alcoholics that are happily married and have great jobs. From an outside perspective, their life looks nice but they have an uncontrollable urge to drink constantly.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of alcoholics that have lived under socialism too.
Alcoholism has existed for far longer than capitalism. It existed in communist and socialist states too (when people could actually get alcohol). I think it’s multi-factorial and deprivation could exacerbate the issue, but my mother is not materially deprived in any way. Her worst drinking was during periods of her life when she was most financially secure. This is a similar phenomenon you’ll see with many addicts.
Probably the most interesting concept in there was how the author admits that Alcohol was a "net-positive" in life. Which adds a whole different flavor to the article. The decision to stop drinking alcohol takes a different meaning when a person can be intellectually honest about the situation.
I'm personally interested in society's relationship with alcohol now. There has been a huge change over the last decade and I don't think anyone fully understands it. Alcohol consumption is down from what I understand, but so is ALL risk-seeking behavior - which can include things like pursuing romantic relationships and starting businesses. Meanwhile there is a massive downturn in psychological well being.
Does anyone have any unbiased studies on this phenomenon? Has there been a more thorough investigation on the matter?
I'm always a bit disappointed when I look at the effects of staying sober.
All these people writing about how they turned their life around, sleeping better, thinking clearer, getting more healthy, etc.
I stopped drinking 3 or 4 years ago and I don't feel any better for it.
However, I only drank like one or two nights a month, when going on a party, so most of my life I was sober anyway.
The only thing I noticed is that I'm now more awkward in social situations. I mean, sure, I might be healthier than before, but I don't have any numbers for that. It's just a thing I assume to be true.
I scored a 1-2 for AUD (12 beers a week), so extremely mild - and the only thing that has improved is having a deeper well to draw from emotionally, when things get tough. It does feel like it was a net positive too.
But there are also things like potentially living longer, which don't have a feel.
You noted that you were on the lower end of alcohol abuse practices for people with drinking problems, and bemoan that changing didn't do more to improve your life.
If you were only 15 pounds overweight, you wouldn't expect to see the same gains in health, energy, and so forth as someone who was 100 pounds overweight.
I have armchair thoughts but would love to see more studies on this. There's no doubt that reduced consumption, taken in isolation, would be a good thing. However, if this is correlated with an increase in social isolation, the benefits would be more complicated.
Do you have a source for your assertion that starting businesses is becoming less popular? I thought there was a huge surge since the pandemic / AI.
I think "risk-seeking behavior" is the wrong way to categorize declining trends. It seems more like "dopamine-seeking behavior" to me, and my armchair theory is that it's related to the infinite scroll. Everybody gets so much dopamine from their phones all the time that they don't feel nearly as compelled to go out and flirt with strangers or get blasted on drugs. The iPad kids now in their 20s must have a totally different relationship with dopamine, for better or worse.
I don't think there is any good historical data on dopamine sensitivity vs. "risk-seeking behavior" on a large scale. My hypothesis is that technological / cultural innovations that raise everybody's dopamine baselines (lowering sensitivity) may be able to explain historical shifts in alcohol consumption and related activities.
I’ve never drank. Half a glass of what I was told was a really good champagne at my wedding 27 years ago. That’s it. It was a conscious decision at first, based on alcohol problems of a family member, then a habit. I’m pretty sure my non-existent social life/skills are at least partly attributable to this. Without something to relax my continuously racing brain (never diagnosed, won’t bother now), I’m probably pretty tedious company and there’s a limited time in your life to build a social network. I don’t complain, as there’s a ton of time that’s freed up when you simply don’t go anywhere and I’ve made good use of it. But I do miss the long glorious conversations straddling both the intellectual and the profane between a group of smart relaxed individuals who, for the moment, have forgotten the world and it’s problems.
Yes, I was also surprised with this narrative because that's exactly how I have treated my drinking years, And I very rarely see this type of honest look back in the community. A lot of self-reflections are either self-flagellating or vilifying alcohol.
I find it very positive for myself to basically look back at any period in my life and be honest about it without re-purposing it into something that it wasn't.
Statisticly: It may be a net positive in a scenario where you go to a party and drink once and by whatever coincidence meet your special-spouse-partner-for-ever. Then this is counted as net positive as well.
The reality is rather: Alcohol is a HUGE net negative on every layer for every individual etc. And regarding corp drinking by the way: I have never seen any relevant decission that was done drunken at a bar (like painted in all these business bullshit warstories)
And all stuff people tell after the second beer at the corp drinking bar is ALWAYS just pure bullshit, you should rather leave.
Three years. You really need to be your own person to handle it, given how alcohol hasn't just permeated the fabric of society, but is the fabric in many situations. For me being available to perform at the top of my game 24/7 is something I enjoy very much e.g. getting a call to do a mercy flight at a moments notice from the island I live on, at night in IMC, knowing it's no problem because I'm sharp - now that's a great feeling.
I think if you're going to go sober, doing something like volunteer fire or another field that lets you feel good about being available 24/7 when others might not be, really helps keep you motivated and appreciate the new state of being. Also just pushing yourself mentally or physically - e.g. training for a marathon or ironman - it lets you actually reap the rewards rather than feel like you've lost something.
Just going to throw out a follow-up here since I own a bar and work barman to fill shifts from time to time:
Athletic IPA or hazy IPA are my favorite NA beers. Athletic does a spectacular job of NA in general. Also Guiness NA - the can with the blue stripe on top - absolutely delicious. Also Bitburger 0.0% is pretty good. Really don't like Heiniken or the other mainstream beer brands that have checked the NA box.
As far as NA cocktails go I really like anything with Cayenne in it or a bit of spicy or sour. Kombuchas are also great for sipping I find. I must warn against Pathfinder NA spirit - I don't know what they put in it and if you read the ingredients I'm not even sure they know - but I've noticed a mental fuzziness the next day that I don't care for.
Also if you are bar staff and someone orders an NA they may want it in a glass even if you serve cans, so that others don't realize they're not drinking. As a non-drinker it's super nice to be able to stand in a group with a glass of beer without any questions. This works particularly well if it's a trade/industry event where the group doesn't know you and they're all using booze as a social lubricant. I'm a little sneaky in this respect because I'll go to the bar solo, grab myself a NA beer in a glass and I've been in groups where they're exchanging drinking stories and I'm just like "uh, yup, cool man."
If you're curious how one can work bar while being a non-drinker i.e. how do you know what you're serving? In Washington state it's illegal to drink while serving bar, so our team tastes and spits when needed. I do the same - so I'm basically tasting drinks for customers e.g. making sure wine isn't corked, making sure a cocktail is made well - but spitting and after 3 years just have absolutely no inclination or desire to swallow any alcohol anyway. But as I said, any barman in this state has to be a non-drinker on the job so it works out.
I've never found a NA wine I care for. Would be great if an Athletic-like brand emerges in that space. LMK if you're aware of one.
> alcohol hasn't just permeated the fabric of society, but is the fabric in many situations
First, congratulations on three years clean. I respect anyone who can cut things out that they find problematic for them. However, the framing of alcohol as a social necessity isn't really true anymore. Alcohol consumption is in a widely publicized decline and alcohol companies (similar to mobile games in this regard) are aware the majority of their revenue comes from anti-social heavy drinkers. Just about the only circles I'm aware of that still run on booze are college greek life.
> who can cut things out that they find problematic for them
This is worth some examination.
“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist” —Charles Baudelaire [Although the original is French]
I think the base state of human existence is eating healthy food and drinking for hydration. On top of that we've layered eating candy, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, vaping marijuana, and we've found other fun and sometimes dangerous ways to exploit our biology for our entertainment.
In the West's free market economy the purveyors of alcohol have convinced us that the base state - in other words normalcy - is to drink booze. Hence the term non-drinker. And thus the attitude that if one doesn't drink, they must have a problem of some sort, since drinking is what normal is. If you don't drink in the West, it is worth remarking upon and calling it out: You are a non-drinker. If you do drink, you are not called out as a "drinker" - you are simply unremarkable.
Which is brilliant if you're selling alcohol. The normalization of drinking has sold kiloliters of alcohol every hour of every day globally for decades, and the received wisdom that non-drinking is a pathological state, keeps the drinker drinking, lest they be identified as having a problem, or as alcohol being "problematic for them".
It's amazing that the alcohol industry is in decline, given what they've managed to pull. I'd say once society's values shift enough, they're in for a very rough ride.
That is, once you are a drinker, and I am unremarkable.
In a broad range of human civilizations, from the Sumerians to the Romans to the Inca, daily drinking was the norm. Has nothing to do with the "West's free market economy"
Hemp [κάνναβις / kánnabis] grows in Scythia: it is very like flax; only that it is a much coarser and taller plant: some grows wild about the country, some is produced by cultivation: the Thracians make garments of it which closely resemble linen; so much so, indeed, that if a person has never seen hemp he is sure to think they are linen, and if he has, unless he is very experienced in such matters, he will not know of which material they are.
The Scythians, as I said, take some of this hemp-seed, and, creeping under the felt coverings, throw it upon the red-hot stones; immediately it smokes, and gives out such a vapour as no Grecian vapour-bath can exceed; the Scyths, delighted, shout for joy, and this vapour serves them instead of a water-bath; for they never by any chance wash their bodies with water.
— Herodotus' "Histories", passage on hotboxing Scythian tribes, written ca. 2,460 years ago
I'm not sure what you mean by running on booze (perhaps you mean daily drinkers), but I think this is real consensus bias to think drinking is not still fairly common socially even after college.
I'm just about at 7 years! Best thing I ever did, but its an entirely different way of being.
I was one way when I was drinking, and i'm another way now. The times when I was drinking were good in a sense, kinda like the author mentions, but after giving it up all of my anxiety vanished, and I noticed (after a few years sober) that I felt almost like my childhood self, which was/is still astonishing to me in the best of ways.
A lot of things had to be sacrificed however. My life is vastly more boring, and I honestly have no interest in socializing, unless it is with family or really close long-term friends. And I used to have a LOT of fun going out, meeting new people, getting in trouble / crazy situations, all of it. Like a totally different person.
But it is all worth it -- my kid has never once had to deal with me having a hangover, and all the baggage that that comes with. And all the fights my partner and I used to get in? Gone. Best thing I ever did, even thought it was extremely hard in the beginning.
Nice! I always tell people that recovery is really just about being awesome. Doing the next right thing is critical. And for an alcoholic, the next right thing is never “have a drink”. Everyone else, enjoy :)
I guess I'm fortunate, but I have zero interest in anything alcohol related. I don't do NA beers or anything like that. I also don't go out to bars or hang out with those that do drink. It's not that I will feel tempted, I just don't have any interest in drinking. I believe that i was compensating for boredom when I was drinking. Now, if I'm bored at night, I just go to bed. I'm so glad I have no more next morning recalls of obnoxious things I might have said the evening before. My health is better too.
I wish I could stop drinking. I'm not a big drinker, but I will have 1-2 drinks two times a week. Maybe once every two months I meet with friends and have a proper binge-drinking. It's not so bad it's a problem, I'm not 20 anymore and I can see it affecting me long term.
I've tried stoping a few times. I managed up to 3 months. But social gatherings kill me, everything is better/funnier with a glass of wine.
I wish there was an alternative pill that made me feel the same way as two beers with no health impact.
Sorry to hear. I've found that the best reason for me stopping drinking was how it destroyed the next day or two. And once you have kids you simply can't afford that as it sucks to not be able to play with them on weekends.
Maybe try lower alcohol beer. Your tolerance will drop after a while so you'll still get a buzz but takes a bit more time and much harder to get yourself in a bad place.
I am not prescribing anything. I don't really understand how you could have interpreted what I said to be such a thing.
Having two drinks and a night out where you have a few too many isn't a big deal. This is fairly normal, especially if you are under 35. It's probably best if you don't binge drink, but they were talking about it as if they had a big problem, which is quite obviously not the case.
I am a recovered/recovering alcoholic, I can't enjoy drinking responsibly, but I can recognise that other people can. I was simply giving a level-headed assessment of what is and isn't a problem. Scolding me for giving that assessment is asinine and I don't appreciate it.
7 months here so the post was an interesting read. I feel like I'm still learning how to function being sober, like what the upcoming holiday season will feel like being sober. I also find myself thinking maybe I can responsibly enjoy alcohol at some point, although deep down I know that isn't true.
What resonated most about the blog post was loss of things I used to do with alcohol. I'm still just avoiding those activities, but I'd love to get to a point where I'm comfortable sitting in a bar without the need for alcohol. In a way, it feels like I'm having to learn how to exist in this alcohol free world.
> What resonated most about the blog post was loss of things I used to do with alcohol. I'm still just avoiding those activities
As a former alcoholic, I used to make performing and listening to music a huge part of my life, which I'd somehow convinced myself could only be maximally enjoyed by pairing it with drinking. When I had to finally quit due to crippling alcoholism, I figured it also meant the end of my music enjoyment.
Fast forward to almost a decade of sobriety, and I've not only sustained my music interest, but both expanded the types I listen to as well as how I listen to them. Now, looking back, I cringe at my stupefying ways of the past. It's like a totally different life, and it makes not relapsing that much more of a no-brainer. But again, it took years to get to this place, with plenty of trip-ups and self-deceit along the way.
Best of luck to anybody trying to find their way. Don't underestimate the utility of group meetings, including secular ones like S.M.A.R.T. as well as professional individual therapy to examine and understand the underlying root causes of your drive to drink.
This is totally normal. The first year is really tough. Takes most people 2-3 years to start feeling confident in situations like weddings, bars, bbqs etc. A good indicator is barely noticing the booze in these places. If you're focusing on the booze, you aren't ready. no big deal,it takes time. also recommend AA - find a meeting you like and get a sponsor you also like. That, along with outside therapy ideally an addiction specialist, and one day soon you might realize that you don't give a shit what people think of you and that actually you are really great and there truly is nothing to escape from.
I think this ought to be the goal with any important (but well-defined & bounded) venture in life: own it so thoroughly that it becomes routine, uninteresting, assumed, and boring.
When it has become boring, it no longer consumes brainspace, freeing you to pursue further goals. It effectively has become part of the platform upon which you implement the specifics of your life.
I am fortunate enough to where alcohol has never been much of a vice for me; I never got to a level that anyone would call me an "alcoholic" though I think I was getting a little close to that after I had a pretty bad breakup when I was 22.
About three years ago I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and decided that that was as good an excuse as any to draw a line in the sand and stop drinking for good. It's not like alcohol is good for me, and I also kind of realized that I only ever enjoyed being drunk about 1/10th of the time. The remaining 9/10th I feel like I either just get really sleepy or really sad.
I had exactly one drink in 2024 during Halloween, but other than that I haven't had anything since September of 2023. I don't really miss it, and quitting alcohol took very little effort on my end. Quitting caffeine on the other hand...
One thing that took me a weirdly long time to figure out was why I was drinking so much.
Turned out it was an injury that had kind of mostly dulled itself out of my perception, but it negatively affected my mood. Booze brought back my happy self. Once I quit, I became moody again. Took a few years and a life change massage that unexpectedly brought back the back pain. I have to regularly get massages but I'm pretty much back to my happy self now.
No booze in almost 12 years (in December).
P.S.
For any heavy drinkers, consider finding a better pain management method. Booze is just a crappy medication when used for that purpose.
Going on almost 2 years sober here and I don't regret it. I have an NA beer or alcohol-removed wine maybe 1x/every other week or so and it's a much healthier relationship overall, totally agree with the sentiment of "mornings under control"...and just every more so!
"Sober" is commonly used by recovering/recovered alcoholics to mean they are no longer drinking. It implies that they were drinking too much, to the point where intoxication was a semi-permanent state. I've heard the word used this way for decades and I'm pretty sure it goes back farther.
Twelve-step groups have been using ''sober'' and ''sobriety'' for almost 100 years. In this day and age its surprising to see some confusion about what those terms can mean.
To be fair, I've never had an issue with drinking. I stopped in my mid twenties and haven't a drink in 20 years. But I never say I'm "sober" since that kind of insinuates it was a problem at one point. If someone offers me a drink, I just say "no thanks I don't drink."
I think of “teetotallers” as being vocal about their abstaining, some to the point of strident abolitionism. Whereas my “sober” friends seem to speak of that more as a personal condition than a zealous cause.
I’ve gotten the sense from twelve-step types of friends that, for them, the “sober” sobriquet goes along with this idea that an alcoholic is never “cured”: that sobriety is always contingent, and that they’re always one drink away from sliding back to “a drunk” again.
For a causal linguistic reason, my guess is it's because sober is a fairly common word otherwise and is very easily pronounced, whereas teetotal is much weirder to say and has a pretty specific meaning, so one may go a long time without seeing or hearing it enough to really stick.
The etymology is also strange - it originally meant "T-total" abstinence from alcohol as in "total with a capital T". A funny word, we probably could have done better.
"teetol" has two additional connotations beyond simply "no alcohol" for some readers/listeners:
** abstaining from caffeine also
** has a religious motivation (e.g. mormons)
Similarly, I've considered describing myself as "straight-edge", but that has the connotation (for some) of being disapproving/judgemental of drinkers.
I'm sober, both in the immediate sense and in the sense that I haven't had a drink in 23 years. I know that drinking is not a good thing for me, for many reasons.
If you want to go home and have a beer or whatever - have a good time. If you want to go to the bar later and have a drink - maybe I'll go with you and sip a fancy mocktail or something, we can take turns buying rounds. If you want to get wasted and party all night - have fun, I had a lot of fun nights that way (please don't drive though).
I'm not opposed to anyone else's drinking. I just know I can't.
Teetotal implies an opposition to all alcohol use. A teetotaler is against you drinking. I'm not opposed to that at all, I just choose for myself to be sober, for a myriad of personal reasons.
"Sober" in this context means "having overcome a dangerous alcohol habit/addiction". Pretty standard alcoholic terminology. Furthermore, much as they might enjoy a drink, alcoholics who have "gone sober" MUST abstain, as alcoholism is seen as lifelong once acquired and the risk of lapsing into self-destructive behavior is too great after even just one drink.
"Teetotaler" usually refers to a person who abstains from alcohol on general principles (does not like the effects, taste, thinks it's a moral vice, etc.).
sober simply means "not drunk", so using it for "haven't been drunk for X amount of time" isn't that extraordinary
and looking at google ngram, teetotal is just a much rarer word out of the two (like 100x), so it's just more likely to not get transmitted down the generations (I certainly do not know how to use it)
i was a heavy drinker. but stopped when i was at the rock bottom of my life. Now ocassionaly may be once in a month i use to drink just to get some cognitive rest.
> I stand by what I wrote earlier this year: Alcohol was a net positive for me. It helped influence the bond of friendships, hundreds of wonderful nights in beautiful places, and in many ways, the founding of FireHydrant.
I feel similarly about alcohol... I came very close to drinking myself to death after a decade or so of heavy drinking, but I think it was also the case that alcohol probably saved me and may have been net-positive overall.
I was very depressed at that time and when things were bad it was useful to know that soon I would be drunk and the pain would go away. That's why I drank.
Now every day is gray and there is no relief and probably will never be. I'm coping and will continue to coop for the little time we have left, but I miss alcohol.
That’s not at all how all alcoholics feel. Sounds like you may be in the early stages of recovery. I recommend checking out an AA meeting. Then you’ll see what’s possible with a program, help, and work.
The biggest advice I can give to someone is that you have to replace the alcohol with something else. For me and a lot of other people it’s weightlifting or running. That’s what I look forward to instead of having a beer. In my specific case I got AllTrails and then made it a goal to “collect” as many different runs as possible by getting a verified complete on those trails. I now have 400+ unique, verified complete trails on my app now.
And for those who can't do it on their own, there is also therapy and AA. I've met plenty of people who developed a problem and cleaned up on their own. But some people can't, and 12 step fellowships and therapy are great for that. And of course replacing bad habits with healthy ones. Good ad for AllTrails by the way
Maybe maybe not. When I was drinking it wasn’t a lot. I never got insanely drunk. I just didn’t like that I was having one or two beers every night after work.
I am "sober" no idea for how long. Alcohol never was important or a regular thing for me, stopping to use it was just a natural extension from getting an adult
How coincidental this appears on my timeline today, it's my 12th year sober today. I started drinking heavily when I turned 21 and it spiraled until an all day, every day thing. I even had pancreatitis when I was 28 and even when it was obvious why I just refused to see it. One night when I was 30, a drunk family member got into a physical altercation with me and I asked a friend to pick me up so I could leave. On that trip, he simply said "have you ever considered that you might be an alcoholic?" I don't know what was different about this time, but I immediately realized it -- holy shit. I never drank again after that.
Once I quit I immediately was "my old self" again. I got back into playing video games, listening to MY music instead of whatever was palatable to whomever I was drinking with, dedicating all my time and energy into my kids and my nerdy hobbies.
It might come across as silly but, if you have someone close to you who has a drinking problem, it might be worth asking them about it. They probably won't be receptive to it until the time is right, but who knows? Maybe that time is when they ask for a ride from you at 2AM.
Congrats on 12 years and sharing that story. More people should hear about these moments.
Well done! It’s so great you were able to quit cold turkey. You’ll live much longer, are likely to experience far fewer health issues, and have many more healthy years at the end of your life.
Sadly many (or maybe most) addicts cannot. Through some combination of compulsive temperament, impulsivity, mental health problems, or unresolved issues, they are unable to stop. Even when they know they’re addicts. My mother is one such person. She’s been seeking the answer her whole life. Religion. AA. Therapy. Exercise. Cold turkey. Multiple divorces. Medications. Moving country several times. Nothing sticks. She knows it’s killing her and can’t stop. I’m trying to convince her to take Wegovy as it’s shown to help with addiction.
I’m grateful that whatever combination of genes I inherited, I’m also able to go cold turkey. Maybe one day we have vaccines for it.
Thank you :) I did go to AA for 3 months when I first quit. I was encouraged by all of the stories, even the horrible and negative ones. I do realize I am lucky. My ex-spouse was not so lucky. It took damn near the destruction of her life to finally stop but she's been going for about 2 years now with lots of ups and downs. I never considered it something that could be vaccinated against but now I share your hope for it someday!
I heard GLP-1s reduce the desire for alcohol (among other things)
Honestly, I will tell you one thing: For sure there have been some drunks forever, since the "invention" of alcohol - though, the drunks of today are a result of capitalism, if you dig deep down enough. Anf if you do, you will see that its mostly money & material issues which brings people into extremes, in which then they will take the bottle. For mens in society (which is the by far bigger parts of drunks), these things are usually around losing the job, losing the partnership etc. The classic ones.
Regarding OP: Thanks for sharing your story! And you can be very VERY proud that you managed this that specific way - great!
I've known plenty of alcoholics that are happily married and have great jobs. From an outside perspective, their life looks nice but they have an uncontrollable urge to drink constantly.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of alcoholics that have lived under socialism too.
They are called "functioning alcoholics", a coined term in psy&addiction research
Alcoholism has existed for far longer than capitalism. It existed in communist and socialist states too (when people could actually get alcohol). I think it’s multi-factorial and deprivation could exacerbate the issue, but my mother is not materially deprived in any way. Her worst drinking was during periods of her life when she was most financially secure. This is a similar phenomenon you’ll see with many addicts.
Question:
>in communist and socialist states too <
when did these exist and where before Capitalism as of ~1750++ ?
[dead]
Probably the most interesting concept in there was how the author admits that Alcohol was a "net-positive" in life. Which adds a whole different flavor to the article. The decision to stop drinking alcohol takes a different meaning when a person can be intellectually honest about the situation.
I'm personally interested in society's relationship with alcohol now. There has been a huge change over the last decade and I don't think anyone fully understands it. Alcohol consumption is down from what I understand, but so is ALL risk-seeking behavior - which can include things like pursuing romantic relationships and starting businesses. Meanwhile there is a massive downturn in psychological well being.
Does anyone have any unbiased studies on this phenomenon? Has there been a more thorough investigation on the matter?
Alcohol was a net-positive in so many ways for me. I talk more about that aspect in the 6 month post here: https://www.bobbytables.io/p/six-months-sober
I'm always a bit disappointed when I look at the effects of staying sober.
All these people writing about how they turned their life around, sleeping better, thinking clearer, getting more healthy, etc.
I stopped drinking 3 or 4 years ago and I don't feel any better for it.
However, I only drank like one or two nights a month, when going on a party, so most of my life I was sober anyway.
The only thing I noticed is that I'm now more awkward in social situations. I mean, sure, I might be healthier than before, but I don't have any numbers for that. It's just a thing I assume to be true.
I scored a 1-2 for AUD (12 beers a week), so extremely mild - and the only thing that has improved is having a deeper well to draw from emotionally, when things get tough. It does feel like it was a net positive too.
But there are also things like potentially living longer, which don't have a feel.
Yeah
None of my grand parents made it over 65, all of them heavy drinkers.
So, I'd probably have that going for me.
You noted that you were on the lower end of alcohol abuse practices for people with drinking problems, and bemoan that changing didn't do more to improve your life.
If you were only 15 pounds overweight, you wouldn't expect to see the same gains in health, energy, and so forth as someone who was 100 pounds overweight.
I have armchair thoughts but would love to see more studies on this. There's no doubt that reduced consumption, taken in isolation, would be a good thing. However, if this is correlated with an increase in social isolation, the benefits would be more complicated.
Do you have a source for your assertion that starting businesses is becoming less popular? I thought there was a huge surge since the pandemic / AI.
I think "risk-seeking behavior" is the wrong way to categorize declining trends. It seems more like "dopamine-seeking behavior" to me, and my armchair theory is that it's related to the infinite scroll. Everybody gets so much dopamine from their phones all the time that they don't feel nearly as compelled to go out and flirt with strangers or get blasted on drugs. The iPad kids now in their 20s must have a totally different relationship with dopamine, for better or worse.
I don't think there is any good historical data on dopamine sensitivity vs. "risk-seeking behavior" on a large scale. My hypothesis is that technological / cultural innovations that raise everybody's dopamine baselines (lowering sensitivity) may be able to explain historical shifts in alcohol consumption and related activities.
I’ve never drank. Half a glass of what I was told was a really good champagne at my wedding 27 years ago. That’s it. It was a conscious decision at first, based on alcohol problems of a family member, then a habit. I’m pretty sure my non-existent social life/skills are at least partly attributable to this. Without something to relax my continuously racing brain (never diagnosed, won’t bother now), I’m probably pretty tedious company and there’s a limited time in your life to build a social network. I don’t complain, as there’s a ton of time that’s freed up when you simply don’t go anywhere and I’ve made good use of it. But I do miss the long glorious conversations straddling both the intellectual and the profane between a group of smart relaxed individuals who, for the moment, have forgotten the world and it’s problems.
Yes, I was also surprised with this narrative because that's exactly how I have treated my drinking years, And I very rarely see this type of honest look back in the community. A lot of self-reflections are either self-flagellating or vilifying alcohol.
I find it very positive for myself to basically look back at any period in my life and be honest about it without re-purposing it into something that it wasn't.
> that Alcohol was a "net-positive"
Statisticly: It may be a net positive in a scenario where you go to a party and drink once and by whatever coincidence meet your special-spouse-partner-for-ever. Then this is counted as net positive as well.
The reality is rather: Alcohol is a HUGE net negative on every layer for every individual etc. And regarding corp drinking by the way: I have never seen any relevant decission that was done drunken at a bar (like painted in all these business bullshit warstories)
And all stuff people tell after the second beer at the corp drinking bar is ALWAYS just pure bullshit, you should rather leave.
Seems plain enough to me, we don't feel safe so we aren't taking risks. And we don't feel good because we don't feel safe.
Three years. You really need to be your own person to handle it, given how alcohol hasn't just permeated the fabric of society, but is the fabric in many situations. For me being available to perform at the top of my game 24/7 is something I enjoy very much e.g. getting a call to do a mercy flight at a moments notice from the island I live on, at night in IMC, knowing it's no problem because I'm sharp - now that's a great feeling.
I think if you're going to go sober, doing something like volunteer fire or another field that lets you feel good about being available 24/7 when others might not be, really helps keep you motivated and appreciate the new state of being. Also just pushing yourself mentally or physically - e.g. training for a marathon or ironman - it lets you actually reap the rewards rather than feel like you've lost something.
Just going to throw out a follow-up here since I own a bar and work barman to fill shifts from time to time:
Athletic IPA or hazy IPA are my favorite NA beers. Athletic does a spectacular job of NA in general. Also Guiness NA - the can with the blue stripe on top - absolutely delicious. Also Bitburger 0.0% is pretty good. Really don't like Heiniken or the other mainstream beer brands that have checked the NA box.
As far as NA cocktails go I really like anything with Cayenne in it or a bit of spicy or sour. Kombuchas are also great for sipping I find. I must warn against Pathfinder NA spirit - I don't know what they put in it and if you read the ingredients I'm not even sure they know - but I've noticed a mental fuzziness the next day that I don't care for.
Also if you are bar staff and someone orders an NA they may want it in a glass even if you serve cans, so that others don't realize they're not drinking. As a non-drinker it's super nice to be able to stand in a group with a glass of beer without any questions. This works particularly well if it's a trade/industry event where the group doesn't know you and they're all using booze as a social lubricant. I'm a little sneaky in this respect because I'll go to the bar solo, grab myself a NA beer in a glass and I've been in groups where they're exchanging drinking stories and I'm just like "uh, yup, cool man."
If you're curious how one can work bar while being a non-drinker i.e. how do you know what you're serving? In Washington state it's illegal to drink while serving bar, so our team tastes and spits when needed. I do the same - so I'm basically tasting drinks for customers e.g. making sure wine isn't corked, making sure a cocktail is made well - but spitting and after 3 years just have absolutely no inclination or desire to swallow any alcohol anyway. But as I said, any barman in this state has to be a non-drinker on the job so it works out.
I've never found a NA wine I care for. Would be great if an Athletic-like brand emerges in that space. LMK if you're aware of one.
I don't know how easy it is to find in the US, but I tried French Bloom while visiting Marseille and found it to be a great NA wine.
Edit: it's a sparkling wine, but imho that makes it more versatile. Gives you a NA option when everyone else is breaking out the bubbly.
Thanks!
Its almost 2027... where's my synthohol?
It exists, but isn't very popular.[1][2] It produces some buzz, but more of it doesn't produce more effects. Can't get drunk on it.[3]
[1] https://gabalabs.com/
[2] https://sentiaspirits.com/
[3] https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/spi...
I left it in the trunk of my flying car
Woah man, don't advocate that people synthetically drink and fly! There may be non-wirehead kids in here who don't need that kind of influence.
> alcohol hasn't just permeated the fabric of society, but is the fabric in many situations
First, congratulations on three years clean. I respect anyone who can cut things out that they find problematic for them. However, the framing of alcohol as a social necessity isn't really true anymore. Alcohol consumption is in a widely publicized decline and alcohol companies (similar to mobile games in this regard) are aware the majority of their revenue comes from anti-social heavy drinkers. Just about the only circles I'm aware of that still run on booze are college greek life.
> who can cut things out that they find problematic for them
This is worth some examination.
“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist” —Charles Baudelaire [Although the original is French]
I think the base state of human existence is eating healthy food and drinking for hydration. On top of that we've layered eating candy, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, vaping marijuana, and we've found other fun and sometimes dangerous ways to exploit our biology for our entertainment.
In the West's free market economy the purveyors of alcohol have convinced us that the base state - in other words normalcy - is to drink booze. Hence the term non-drinker. And thus the attitude that if one doesn't drink, they must have a problem of some sort, since drinking is what normal is. If you don't drink in the West, it is worth remarking upon and calling it out: You are a non-drinker. If you do drink, you are not called out as a "drinker" - you are simply unremarkable.
Which is brilliant if you're selling alcohol. The normalization of drinking has sold kiloliters of alcohol every hour of every day globally for decades, and the received wisdom that non-drinking is a pathological state, keeps the drinker drinking, lest they be identified as having a problem, or as alcohol being "problematic for them".
It's amazing that the alcohol industry is in decline, given what they've managed to pull. I'd say once society's values shift enough, they're in for a very rough ride.
That is, once you are a drinker, and I am unremarkable.
In a broad range of human civilizations, from the Sumerians to the Romans to the Inca, daily drinking was the norm. Has nothing to do with the "West's free market economy"
So... the OG dirty hippies? :D
I'm not sure what you mean by running on booze (perhaps you mean daily drinkers), but I think this is real consensus bias to think drinking is not still fairly common socially even after college.
I'm just about at 7 years! Best thing I ever did, but its an entirely different way of being.
I was one way when I was drinking, and i'm another way now. The times when I was drinking were good in a sense, kinda like the author mentions, but after giving it up all of my anxiety vanished, and I noticed (after a few years sober) that I felt almost like my childhood self, which was/is still astonishing to me in the best of ways.
A lot of things had to be sacrificed however. My life is vastly more boring, and I honestly have no interest in socializing, unless it is with family or really close long-term friends. And I used to have a LOT of fun going out, meeting new people, getting in trouble / crazy situations, all of it. Like a totally different person.
But it is all worth it -- my kid has never once had to deal with me having a hangover, and all the baggage that that comes with. And all the fights my partner and I used to get in? Gone. Best thing I ever did, even thought it was extremely hard in the beginning.
Nice! I always tell people that recovery is really just about being awesome. Doing the next right thing is critical. And for an alcoholic, the next right thing is never “have a drink”. Everyone else, enjoy :)
Six years sober here.
I guess I'm fortunate, but I have zero interest in anything alcohol related. I don't do NA beers or anything like that. I also don't go out to bars or hang out with those that do drink. It's not that I will feel tempted, I just don't have any interest in drinking. I believe that i was compensating for boredom when I was drinking. Now, if I'm bored at night, I just go to bed. I'm so glad I have no more next morning recalls of obnoxious things I might have said the evening before. My health is better too.
I wish I could stop drinking. I'm not a big drinker, but I will have 1-2 drinks two times a week. Maybe once every two months I meet with friends and have a proper binge-drinking. It's not so bad it's a problem, I'm not 20 anymore and I can see it affecting me long term.
I've tried stoping a few times. I managed up to 3 months. But social gatherings kill me, everything is better/funnier with a glass of wine.
I wish there was an alternative pill that made me feel the same way as two beers with no health impact.
Sorry to hear. I've found that the best reason for me stopping drinking was how it destroyed the next day or two. And once you have kids you simply can't afford that as it sucks to not be able to play with them on weekends.
Maybe try lower alcohol beer. Your tolerance will drop after a while so you'll still get a buzz but takes a bit more time and much harder to get yourself in a bad place.
(if you want a fun distraction check out this SNL skit that your comment reminded me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUPSTQSGb50)
The low alcohol beer might be a good middle-ground for me. Thank you for the recommendation.
Shane cracks me up every time lol
1-2 drinks twice a week and occasionally having the odd night out on town isn't a problem.
For you.
Don't prescribe what others should view as a desirable path.
I am not prescribing anything. I don't really understand how you could have interpreted what I said to be such a thing.
Having two drinks and a night out where you have a few too many isn't a big deal. This is fairly normal, especially if you are under 35. It's probably best if you don't binge drink, but they were talking about it as if they had a big problem, which is quite obviously not the case.
I am a recovered/recovering alcoholic, I can't enjoy drinking responsibly, but I can recognise that other people can. I was simply giving a level-headed assessment of what is and isn't a problem. Scolding me for giving that assessment is asinine and I don't appreciate it.
7 months here so the post was an interesting read. I feel like I'm still learning how to function being sober, like what the upcoming holiday season will feel like being sober. I also find myself thinking maybe I can responsibly enjoy alcohol at some point, although deep down I know that isn't true.
What resonated most about the blog post was loss of things I used to do with alcohol. I'm still just avoiding those activities, but I'd love to get to a point where I'm comfortable sitting in a bar without the need for alcohol. In a way, it feels like I'm having to learn how to exist in this alcohol free world.
> What resonated most about the blog post was loss of things I used to do with alcohol. I'm still just avoiding those activities
As a former alcoholic, I used to make performing and listening to music a huge part of my life, which I'd somehow convinced myself could only be maximally enjoyed by pairing it with drinking. When I had to finally quit due to crippling alcoholism, I figured it also meant the end of my music enjoyment.
Fast forward to almost a decade of sobriety, and I've not only sustained my music interest, but both expanded the types I listen to as well as how I listen to them. Now, looking back, I cringe at my stupefying ways of the past. It's like a totally different life, and it makes not relapsing that much more of a no-brainer. But again, it took years to get to this place, with plenty of trip-ups and self-deceit along the way.
Best of luck to anybody trying to find their way. Don't underestimate the utility of group meetings, including secular ones like S.M.A.R.T. as well as professional individual therapy to examine and understand the underlying root causes of your drive to drink.
This is totally normal. The first year is really tough. Takes most people 2-3 years to start feeling confident in situations like weddings, bars, bbqs etc. A good indicator is barely noticing the booze in these places. If you're focusing on the booze, you aren't ready. no big deal,it takes time. also recommend AA - find a meeting you like and get a sponsor you also like. That, along with outside therapy ideally an addiction specialist, and one day soon you might realize that you don't give a shit what people think of you and that actually you are really great and there truly is nothing to escape from.
I think this ought to be the goal with any important (but well-defined & bounded) venture in life: own it so thoroughly that it becomes routine, uninteresting, assumed, and boring.
When it has become boring, it no longer consumes brainspace, freeing you to pursue further goals. It effectively has become part of the platform upon which you implement the specifics of your life.
Loved this read and perspective.
Been sober myself for about three years now and it wasn’t hardly as difficult as I used to tell myself.
Here’s to another year!
I am fortunate enough to where alcohol has never been much of a vice for me; I never got to a level that anyone would call me an "alcoholic" though I think I was getting a little close to that after I had a pretty bad breakup when I was 22.
About three years ago I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and decided that that was as good an excuse as any to draw a line in the sand and stop drinking for good. It's not like alcohol is good for me, and I also kind of realized that I only ever enjoyed being drunk about 1/10th of the time. The remaining 9/10th I feel like I either just get really sleepy or really sad.
I had exactly one drink in 2024 during Halloween, but other than that I haven't had anything since September of 2023. I don't really miss it, and quitting alcohol took very little effort on my end. Quitting caffeine on the other hand...
Man, this brought back memories.
One thing that took me a weirdly long time to figure out was why I was drinking so much.
Turned out it was an injury that had kind of mostly dulled itself out of my perception, but it negatively affected my mood. Booze brought back my happy self. Once I quit, I became moody again. Took a few years and a life change massage that unexpectedly brought back the back pain. I have to regularly get massages but I'm pretty much back to my happy self now.
No booze in almost 12 years (in December).
P.S. For any heavy drinkers, consider finding a better pain management method. Booze is just a crappy medication when used for that purpose.
Going on almost 2 years sober here and I don't regret it. I have an NA beer or alcohol-removed wine maybe 1x/every other week or so and it's a much healthier relationship overall, totally agree with the sentiment of "mornings under control"...and just every more so!
When did "sober" take over from "teetotal" for someone who will long-term abstain from alcohol?
I'm sober right now but won't be tonight when I have a couple of glasses of wine in front of the TV.
"Sober" is commonly used by recovering/recovered alcoholics to mean they are no longer drinking. It implies that they were drinking too much, to the point where intoxication was a semi-permanent state. I've heard the word used this way for decades and I'm pretty sure it goes back farther.
Twelve-step groups have been using ''sober'' and ''sobriety'' for almost 100 years. In this day and age its surprising to see some confusion about what those terms can mean.
To be fair, I've never had an issue with drinking. I stopped in my mid twenties and haven't a drink in 20 years. But I never say I'm "sober" since that kind of insinuates it was a problem at one point. If someone offers me a drink, I just say "no thanks I don't drink."
I think of “teetotallers” as being vocal about their abstaining, some to the point of strident abolitionism. Whereas my “sober” friends seem to speak of that more as a personal condition than a zealous cause.
I’ve gotten the sense from twelve-step types of friends that, for them, the “sober” sobriquet goes along with this idea that an alcoholic is never “cured”: that sobriety is always contingent, and that they’re always one drink away from sliding back to “a drunk” again.
For a causal linguistic reason, my guess is it's because sober is a fairly common word otherwise and is very easily pronounced, whereas teetotal is much weirder to say and has a pretty specific meaning, so one may go a long time without seeing or hearing it enough to really stick.
The etymology is also strange - it originally meant "T-total" abstinence from alcohol as in "total with a capital T". A funny word, we probably could have done better.
"teetol" has two additional connotations beyond simply "no alcohol" for some readers/listeners:
Similarly, I've considered describing myself as "straight-edge", but that has the connotation (for some) of being disapproving/judgemental of drinkers.I'm sober, both in the immediate sense and in the sense that I haven't had a drink in 23 years. I know that drinking is not a good thing for me, for many reasons.
If you want to go home and have a beer or whatever - have a good time. If you want to go to the bar later and have a drink - maybe I'll go with you and sip a fancy mocktail or something, we can take turns buying rounds. If you want to get wasted and party all night - have fun, I had a lot of fun nights that way (please don't drive though).
I'm not opposed to anyone else's drinking. I just know I can't.
Teetotal implies an opposition to all alcohol use. A teetotaler is against you drinking. I'm not opposed to that at all, I just choose for myself to be sober, for a myriad of personal reasons.
"Sober" in this context means "having overcome a dangerous alcohol habit/addiction". Pretty standard alcoholic terminology. Furthermore, much as they might enjoy a drink, alcoholics who have "gone sober" MUST abstain, as alcoholism is seen as lifelong once acquired and the risk of lapsing into self-destructive behavior is too great after even just one drink.
"Teetotaler" usually refers to a person who abstains from alcohol on general principles (does not like the effects, taste, thinks it's a moral vice, etc.).
sober simply means "not drunk", so using it for "haven't been drunk for X amount of time" isn't that extraordinary
and looking at google ngram, teetotal is just a much rarer word out of the two (like 100x), so it's just more likely to not get transmitted down the generations (I certainly do not know how to use it)
i was a heavy drinker. but stopped when i was at the rock bottom of my life. Now ocassionaly may be once in a month i use to drink just to get some cognitive rest.
> I stand by what I wrote earlier this year: Alcohol was a net positive for me. It helped influence the bond of friendships, hundreds of wonderful nights in beautiful places, and in many ways, the founding of FireHydrant.
I feel similarly about alcohol... I came very close to drinking myself to death after a decade or so of heavy drinking, but I think it was also the case that alcohol probably saved me and may have been net-positive overall.
I was very depressed at that time and when things were bad it was useful to know that soon I would be drunk and the pain would go away. That's why I drank.
Now every day is gray and there is no relief and probably will never be. I'm coping and will continue to coop for the little time we have left, but I miss alcohol.
Maybe that's how all alcoholics feel.
That’s not at all how all alcoholics feel. Sounds like you may be in the early stages of recovery. I recommend checking out an AA meeting. Then you’ll see what’s possible with a program, help, and work.
The biggest advice I can give to someone is that you have to replace the alcohol with something else. For me and a lot of other people it’s weightlifting or running. That’s what I look forward to instead of having a beer. In my specific case I got AllTrails and then made it a goal to “collect” as many different runs as possible by getting a verified complete on those trails. I now have 400+ unique, verified complete trails on my app now.
For males with physical activity issues when quitting alcohol I've been recommending Men's Sheds to hopefully fill voids in lives:
https://menshed.com
And for those who can't do it on their own, there is also therapy and AA. I've met plenty of people who developed a problem and cleaned up on their own. But some people can't, and 12 step fellowships and therapy are great for that. And of course replacing bad habits with healthy ones. Good ad for AllTrails by the way
The term for folks who fail to do what you’re saying is “dry drunk”. It’s a good indicator you’ll be returning to alcohol.
Maybe maybe not. When I was drinking it wasn’t a lot. I never got insanely drunk. I just didn’t like that I was having one or two beers every night after work.
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Why are you commenting?
Fuck along, now.
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I am "sober" no idea for how long. Alcohol never was important or a regular thing for me, stopping to use it was just a natural extension from getting an adult
Where did you get your adult? Not that I’d want one, mind you, adults are nasty and boring. Just wanted to know :)
My guess is that the GP is a native German speaker and got confused with the false friend to become ≠ bekommen (to get).
It’s okay, no need to explain, even Germans have a right to be funny sometimes :)