Religious extremism is a mental illness and has no place in government.
>Saudi Arabia is among the world's most prolific executioners. According to Amnesty, at least 175 people had been executed in the kingdom this year as of 5 October, most of them foreign nationals, including at least 94 people from more than 20 countries. It has no written penal code, leaving many offences and punishments to judges' interpretation of Sharia, and broad provisions in its counter-terrorism and cybercrime laws have been used to impose long sentences for social media posts.
This should be widely publicized. No foreigner is safe.
Even where it isn’t the law it’s often the practice to lynch perceived blasphemers, and wouldn’t ya know… that leads to a lot of accusations of blasphemy against broadly disliked people.
I guess the bright side is that they’re less prepared to believe in criminal witchcraft than North Africans.
> Religious extremism is a mental illness and has no place in government.
I'd extend that to any religion based in supernatural beings being a mental illness in an adult. It's incredible how many adults can't realize that supernatural beings are an imagination exercise, and any control they allow to others based on this imaginary authority is a form of exploitation.
These people should not be making laws for the rest of us, use official media to disseminate religious messages, or act based on religious beliefs.
Based on original reading of the story though the man's comments were reported to Saudi Arabia by his fellow countrymen. Also Blasphemy law exists in many other Islamic countries like Pakistan etc.
> Also Blasphemy law exists in many other Islamic countries like Pakistan etc.
England and Wales isn't far off, some might claim. The blasphemy law was repealed only in 2008 but at the same time replaced with something not so severe, which got tested recently by a man burning convicted for burning a Quran, which got overturned on a high court appeal.
Not to mention the whole raft of hate/offence/communication crimes that can be used in a similar manner:
I know balance must exist, especially when it approaches physical violence, but we must have an absolute right to discuss intolerance and violence and misogyny no matter what book it's in.
> I know balance must exist, especially when it approaches physical violence, but we must have an absolute right to discuss intolerance and violence and misogyny no matter what book it's in.
You mean when the islamic prophet mandates killing people for disagreements? Which is then countered by stating the quran does not directly demand it (and even that is a stretch, or shall we say "technically true", it merely strongly encourages it)
And let's just not discuss what happens when you tell a muslim "ok, brutally kidnapping and executing people for disagreeing with you is wrong, and certainly killing an entire tribe/village of people killing men, women and children all because one of them disagreed with you is VERY wrong, so then tell me the prophet was absolutely wrong for doing that".
If there exist any kind of moral issue that should be judged fully as black or white, this one would be the top of the list.
Just pointing out the problem by making a comment stating more exactly what the problem is. Just look what happens to this comment ...
- the US believes religion doesn't belong in government, a lot of the rest of the world does.
-I don't believe in executing people for what they say, however I do also believe in a countries right to self govern, but I also believe other countries should condemn certain behaviour - it's a fine line with, and a fuzzy one.
- I also believe in 'when in rome'. Eg I was a Catholic in Morocco, and you can bet your boots I didn't go anywhere near their (fairly impressive!) mosques (as I didn't have a good understanding of their requirements, and I wasn't around long enough to have the time to learn).
> the US believes religion doesn't belong in government, a lot of the rest of the world does.
Wait, did I step in a different timeline, one where there is not a major cultural battlefield in the US that’s centered around religion?
You might want to see your country from outside of its borders to have a more objective perspective on the matter. The US is on its way to becoming a Christian fundamentalist country in ways we haven’t seen since the middle ages in Europe, for example.
I guess it’s to be expected as all the religious weirdos fled Europe for the Americas, and they hold still a lot of power. I mean, you have “In God we trust” in your banknotes. Not very secular of you.
Freedom of religion is deeply intwined in the US's legal and political system, to the point where superficial pronouncements made by certain parties are not effective in changing that fact
I'm more referring to the colloquial 'separation of church and state', or formally "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
> Crehan was returned to C wing at Horfield on Boxing Day without adequate health screening, without adequate communication from healthcare staff to prison guards
I just wish UK would punish dog attacks with the same vigour! Unleashing your dog on muslim is a brutal racial hate assault!
Thank you brave throwaway account for spreading lies, but while Crehan did pass away in December 2016 while serving his sentence, he was not murdered by "radical Muslims", nor was he killed by anyone. A police investigation and an independent coroner's inquest found no suspicious circumstances or foul play. The inquest concluded that he died alone in his cell from a drug overdose involving methadone.
Also, he was not sent to a "high-security prison full of radical Muslims", he was serving his time at HMP Bristol, which is a standard Category B local adult prison that houses mainstream inmates from the surrounding local courts.
That’s… Rushdie was targeted by Iranian leadership and Hebdo was committed by Algerian Al Qaeda members. Neither have a whole lot to do with Saudi Arabia.
If you want a better source for Saudi Arabia and Sri Lanka, look for a newspaper that is a lot closer to them than the U.S. version of the Daily Mirror is. Even the U.K. version of the Daily Mirror would not be a good source for this sort of thing.
On 7 October, Amnesty International called on Saudi Arabia to quash the sentence and release him immediately and unconditionally.
"No one should be imprisoned, let alone face execution simply for expressing their views, even if these are deemed insulting or offensive," said Heba Morayef, Amnesty's regional director for the Middle East and North Africa.
I searched the web but no one has the comment up. It was probably never published. I guess the only people to know the content would be the accused, the accuser and the court.
It was apparently something derogatory about the profit Muhammad according to other reporting. Though I guess news outlets are skeptical to mention the profit Muhammad.
Here are my thoughts.
1. Don't commit crimes. If saying or writing a given phrase is a crime in the country you reside in, don't say it and don't write it. This poor man was apparently aware of this, given he deleted his comments a few minutes after writing it. Unfortunately, too late: in the meantime, some extremists had the time to screenshot his comment and send them to his employer.
2. Related, how did Saudi Arabia attorney establish that the comment was authentic? Nothing could be easier than doctoring a screenshot. Did they get Facebook to cooperate and confirm this comment was indeed posted by this man? The articles don't mention this.
3. I hope Sri Lanka and other countries will put pressure on Saudi Arabia to get this man a pardon.
4. It would be very easy for Facebook to implement automated censorship of comments that would cause their author to be killed, imprisoned, or fined. This is obviously censorship, but useful censorship. With Jev or similar models you could do it for a few hundreds of cents per comment, if that, and no doubt Facebook could do it for even cheaper.
When I search google, using his name, the AI generated content at the top works.. if I ask what comment he left, suddenly the AI generated content stops working.
If your "one true religion" requires the death of anyone who would question its validity, you don't have a religion. You have an abusive totalitarian mind control cult.
When you confront the "true believers" with logical counter arguments to their beliefs, it results in frustration, which then manifests itself as violence.
If you're asking the living about "life after death" you need to re-examine your data collection procedures.
Only the dead know what happens, and they are notoriously difficult to converse with.
Intolerant Saudi Arabia and its inhuman treatment of non-muslims. Why the world puts up with it is beyond me.
The problem was a trivial one; there was a dog in a non-muslim religious procession which was wantonly kicked by a muslim man. As any normal empathetic human would, this person wrote a facebook post condemning it in somewhat strong terms which may have had some religious flavour which he later deleted and apologized for.
The above is what is being tried under blasphemous laws by the Saudis. Where is the outrage from the international media, human rights organizations and the larger world?
We are living in the 21st century, for goodness' sake!
I don't believe they have been, or are. What's happening today is media manipulation by selective reporting (i.e. straw manning). We've seen many, many cases of Islam-haters who, after studying Islam properly, end up embracing it.
Furthermore, people can be outraged at anything, including things that are good for them. Can't be more clear than what we see happening in certain geo-political circles.
Are you proselytizing Islam, in a thread to do with Saudi Arabia's state sponsored would-be-murder of a non-muslim in the name of Islam, because he wrote something on Facebook?
You have already shown your "true colours", by arguing about Islam when the issue is the would-be-murder of an innocent man by Saudi Arabia in the name of Islam.
As someone who lives in a majority Muslim country, I would say that yeah it’s so fucked up this really made me sad. If you’re an atheist you really can’t critic anyone. They don’t accept logic. They just want to cut your head off and that exists amongst the most peaceful Muslims you have ever seen in your life? Trust me they are not going to tolerate any criticism or any freedom of speech. They only want to cut your head off.
And they always reply with some nonsense about freedom. They don’t even understand what freedom is especially freedom of speech.
Five years in prison for a Facebook comment was already outrageous. Escalating that to a death sentence is beyond comprehension. No one's life should depend on whether the government approves of their religious opinions
> This is the real face of Islam; it is the antithesis of tolerance.
Whoa, you can't post religious slurs or flamebait to HN, regardless of which religion(s) you have a problem with. We ban accounts for posting like this, so please don't do it again.
What governments? The US? Come on that's their bestest pal. Trump literally defended the current dictator of Saudi after he bonesawed that journalist and said the guy deserved it
Religious extremism is a mental illness and has no place in government.
>Saudi Arabia is among the world's most prolific executioners. According to Amnesty, at least 175 people had been executed in the kingdom this year as of 5 October, most of them foreign nationals, including at least 94 people from more than 20 countries. It has no written penal code, leaving many offences and punishments to judges' interpretation of Sharia, and broad provisions in its counter-terrorism and cybercrime laws have been used to impose long sentences for social media posts.
This should be widely publicized. No foreigner is safe.
Iran has executed at least 2,159 people in 2025. Apparently over 500 people this year ( https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260827-iran-executes... ).
Saudi Arabia executed 356 people last year. Apparently a record.
Iraq, China, Egypt, Somalia... The list goes on. And unfortunately the USA is also on that wall of shame (47 in 2025).
The world is not in a great shape.
EDIT: In many Muslim countries blasphemy and apostasy are punishable by death. Not all of them enforce it though but it's still in the books.
Even where it isn’t the law it’s often the practice to lynch perceived blasphemers, and wouldn’t ya know… that leads to a lot of accusations of blasphemy against broadly disliked people.
I guess the bright side is that they’re less prepared to believe in criminal witchcraft than North Africans.
> Religious extremism is a mental illness and has no place in government.
I'd extend that to any religion based in supernatural beings being a mental illness in an adult. It's incredible how many adults can't realize that supernatural beings are an imagination exercise, and any control they allow to others based on this imaginary authority is a form of exploitation.
These people should not be making laws for the rest of us, use official media to disseminate religious messages, or act based on religious beliefs.
Based on original reading of the story though the man's comments were reported to Saudi Arabia by his fellow countrymen. Also Blasphemy law exists in many other Islamic countries like Pakistan etc.
Yeah, that's all disgusting human behavior. And it's even more disgusting that agents of the Saudi government will murder him over it.
> Also Blasphemy law exists in many other Islamic countries like Pakistan etc.
England and Wales isn't far off, some might claim. The blasphemy law was repealed only in 2008 but at the same time replaced with something not so severe, which got tested recently by a man burning convicted for burning a Quran, which got overturned on a high court appeal.
Not to mention the whole raft of hate/offence/communication crimes that can be used in a similar manner:
https://freespeechunion.org/fundraisers/blasphemy-fundraiser
I know balance must exist, especially when it approaches physical violence, but we must have an absolute right to discuss intolerance and violence and misogyny no matter what book it's in.
> I know balance must exist, especially when it approaches physical violence, but we must have an absolute right to discuss intolerance and violence and misogyny no matter what book it's in.
You mean when the islamic prophet mandates killing people for disagreements? Which is then countered by stating the quran does not directly demand it (and even that is a stretch, or shall we say "technically true", it merely strongly encourages it)
And let's just not discuss what happens when you tell a muslim "ok, brutally kidnapping and executing people for disagreeing with you is wrong, and certainly killing an entire tribe/village of people killing men, women and children all because one of them disagreed with you is VERY wrong, so then tell me the prophet was absolutely wrong for doing that".
If there exist any kind of moral issue that should be judged fully as black or white, this one would be the top of the list.
Just pointing out the problem by making a comment stating more exactly what the problem is. Just look what happens to this comment ...
A few things I'd challenge here:
- the US believes religion doesn't belong in government, a lot of the rest of the world does.
-I don't believe in executing people for what they say, however I do also believe in a countries right to self govern, but I also believe other countries should condemn certain behaviour - it's a fine line with, and a fuzzy one.
- I also believe in 'when in rome'. Eg I was a Catholic in Morocco, and you can bet your boots I didn't go anywhere near their (fairly impressive!) mosques (as I didn't have a good understanding of their requirements, and I wasn't around long enough to have the time to learn).
> the US believes religion doesn't belong in government, a lot of the rest of the world does.
Wait, did I step in a different timeline, one where there is not a major cultural battlefield in the US that’s centered around religion?
You might want to see your country from outside of its borders to have a more objective perspective on the matter. The US is on its way to becoming a Christian fundamentalist country in ways we haven’t seen since the middle ages in Europe, for example.
I guess it’s to be expected as all the religious weirdos fled Europe for the Americas, and they hold still a lot of power. I mean, you have “In God we trust” in your banknotes. Not very secular of you.
Freedom of religion is deeply intwined in the US's legal and political system, to the point where superficial pronouncements made by certain parties are not effective in changing that fact
I'm more referring to the colloquial 'separation of church and state', or formally "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
It's a joke. In the US you have to put your hand on a Bible or equivalent when testifying in court.
France is a country where religion is separated from government.
>In the US you have to put your hand on a Bible or equivalent when testifying in court.
No you don't. Why is this lie allowed to perpetuate?
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I wonder if France becomes majority or plurality Muslim, will they keep that rule?
The US is a theocracy now too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcysQmPQvbs
They are allies with the world bully whom no one can oppose. Nothing will change there as a result
> mental illness and has no place in government
People with mental illnesses should be in government though, this is a terrible argument.
Huh? People with mental illnesses should not be in government.
I would imagine that the idea is to have representation for mental illness in government, but stability and compassion are more important.
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He killed himself.
(I think it's off topic to discuss this, but I didn't like your misinformation.)
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/kevin-crehan...
Right! From your own link:
> Crehan was returned to C wing at Horfield on Boxing Day without adequate health screening, without adequate communication from healthcare staff to prison guards
I just wish UK would punish dog attacks with the same vigour! Unleashing your dog on muslim is a brutal racial hate assault!
Clearly mentally ill people should get the benefit of the doubt for nonviolent offenses. Also, not a max security prison.
There is a flagged reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50016584
It says the prison is a standard local prison.
I recommend ignoring these new accounts spreading far-right nonsense.
"Muslim" is not a race.
Thank you brave throwaway account for spreading lies, but while Crehan did pass away in December 2016 while serving his sentence, he was not murdered by "radical Muslims", nor was he killed by anyone. A police investigation and an independent coroner's inquest found no suspicious circumstances or foul play. The inquest concluded that he died alone in his cell from a drug overdose involving methadone.
Also, he was not sent to a "high-security prison full of radical Muslims", he was serving his time at HMP Bristol, which is a standard Category B local adult prison that houses mainstream inmates from the surrounding local courts.
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This is of course wrong, no matter what the comment was, but it is strange that the article does not say what the comment was.
If someone published the comment, they'd be dodging assassination attempts, like Salman Rushdie [1] and the staff of Charlie Hebdo.[2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting
That’s… Rushdie was targeted by Iranian leadership and Hebdo was committed by Algerian Al Qaeda members. Neither have a whole lot to do with Saudi Arabia.
Maybe you’re thinking of Kashoggi?
It is not being a target of a state, but rather the target of a group of people who take blasphemy very seriously
In the case of Iran it’s literally the same thing.
And so many more Islamic countries.
If you want a better source for Saudi Arabia and Sri Lanka, look for a newspaper that is a lot closer to them than the U.S. version of the Daily Mirror is. Even the U.K. version of the Daily Mirror would not be a good source for this sort of thing.
* https://tamilguardian.com/content/explainer-sivarasa-anojan-...
On 7 October, Amnesty International called on Saudi Arabia to quash the sentence and release him immediately and unconditionally.
"No one should be imprisoned, let alone face execution simply for expressing their views, even if these are deemed insulting or offensive," said Heba Morayef, Amnesty's regional director for the Middle East and North Africa.
I searched the web but no one has the comment up. It was probably never published. I guess the only people to know the content would be the accused, the accuser and the court.
There was quite an iteresting dicsussion of the islamic law on r/CritiqueIslam https://www.reddit.com/r/CritiqueIslam/comments/1wjz0r2/the_...
It was apparently something derogatory about the profit Muhammad according to other reporting. Though I guess news outlets are skeptical to mention the profit Muhammad.
* prophet (profit=gaining money or wealth)
Please don't show this comment to anyone involved in educating me
> Please don't show this comment to anyone involved in educating me
S'okay. We'll just pretend it was "Google Auto-Wrong". ;)
Tomato tomato.
Except it's not "Tomato tomato". These are two completely different words meaning entirely different things, ain't they? Prophet != Profit.
Here are my thoughts. 1. Don't commit crimes. If saying or writing a given phrase is a crime in the country you reside in, don't say it and don't write it. This poor man was apparently aware of this, given he deleted his comments a few minutes after writing it. Unfortunately, too late: in the meantime, some extremists had the time to screenshot his comment and send them to his employer.
2. Related, how did Saudi Arabia attorney establish that the comment was authentic? Nothing could be easier than doctoring a screenshot. Did they get Facebook to cooperate and confirm this comment was indeed posted by this man? The articles don't mention this.
3. I hope Sri Lanka and other countries will put pressure on Saudi Arabia to get this man a pardon.
4. It would be very easy for Facebook to implement automated censorship of comments that would cause their author to be killed, imprisoned, or fined. This is obviously censorship, but useful censorship. With Jev or similar models you could do it for a few hundreds of cents per comment, if that, and no doubt Facebook could do it for even cheaper.
Facebook probably got paid $150 - $250 on the back office request by the prosecution for the condemned users info.
As a for profit corporation, it would be irresponsible for them to decline the request and lose the fee. ( sarcasm )
When I search google, using his name, the AI generated content at the top works.. if I ask what comment he left, suddenly the AI generated content stops working.
If your "one true religion" requires the death of anyone who would question its validity, you don't have a religion. You have an abusive totalitarian mind control cult.
When you confront the "true believers" with logical counter arguments to their beliefs, it results in frustration, which then manifests itself as violence.
If you're asking the living about "life after death" you need to re-examine your data collection procedures.
Only the dead know what happens, and they are notoriously difficult to converse with.
> an abusive totalitarian mind control cult
Which religion isn't exactly that?
Seems like a trick question to me. V
Intolerant Saudi Arabia and its inhuman treatment of non-muslims. Why the world puts up with it is beyond me.
The problem was a trivial one; there was a dog in a non-muslim religious procession which was wantonly kicked by a muslim man. As any normal empathetic human would, this person wrote a facebook post condemning it in somewhat strong terms which may have had some religious flavour which he later deleted and apologized for.
The above is what is being tried under blasphemous laws by the Saudis. Where is the outrage from the international media, human rights organizations and the larger world?
We are living in the 21st century, for goodness' sake!
They put up with it because of oil. Isn’t that obvious?
People have been outraged by Sharia Law for centuries.
Shariah prohibits dealing inhumanely with animals.
What does this have to do with people being outraged by Sharia law for centuries?
I don't believe they have been, or are. What's happening today is media manipulation by selective reporting (i.e. straw manning). We've seen many, many cases of Islam-haters who, after studying Islam properly, end up embracing it.
Furthermore, people can be outraged at anything, including things that are good for them. Can't be more clear than what we see happening in certain geo-political circles.
Is this a joke?
Are you proselytizing Islam, in a thread to do with Saudi Arabia's state sponsored would-be-murder of a non-muslim in the name of Islam, because he wrote something on Facebook?
Did you read what I wrote?
Yes and it is utter bullshit.
You are playing Islamic apologia while a man is going to be executed by Saudi Arabia under Islamic tenets.
I won't respond to someone who couldn't understand what I wrote and is clearly anti-Islam.
You have already shown your "true colours", by arguing about Islam when the issue is the would-be-murder of an innocent man by Saudi Arabia in the name of Islam.
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The Western world puts up with it because they don't care. The only thing they care about is money and power. Both of which Saudi can help them with
what a shame. i wonder what religion still has laws that issue the death penalty if you insult the religion or a prominent member of the religion
Wahhabism is pretty nasty, it’s worth noting a huge number of Muslims despise the sect
Sharia law comes together with Islam.
Once there's enough Islam, Sharia law gets adopted.
As someone who lives in a majority Muslim country, I would say that yeah it’s so fucked up this really made me sad. If you’re an atheist you really can’t critic anyone. They don’t accept logic. They just want to cut your head off and that exists amongst the most peaceful Muslims you have ever seen in your life? Trust me they are not going to tolerate any criticism or any freedom of speech. They only want to cut your head off. And they always reply with some nonsense about freedom. They don’t even understand what freedom is especially freedom of speech.
Five years in prison for a Facebook comment was already outrageous. Escalating that to a death sentence is beyond comprehension. No one's life should depend on whether the government approves of their religious opinions
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> This is the real face of Islam; it is the antithesis of tolerance.
Whoa, you can't post religious slurs or flamebait to HN, regardless of which religion(s) you have a problem with. We ban accounts for posting like this, so please don't do it again.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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Which homeland?
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What governments? The US? Come on that's their bestest pal. Trump literally defended the current dictator of Saudi after he bonesawed that journalist and said the guy deserved it
It’s weird that Trump bought a yacht from Kashogi’s dad, huh